Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 528 posts

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#291

Post by bluegatty »

lysace wrote: post #266
bluegatty wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not likely 'giving' , Sweden just got $90B in locked up Russian money and those 'freebies' are going to come along with a major purchase order.

Unfortunately the EU still hasn't gotten the balls to confiscate that frozen oligarchy money, so no. Just wait, though. Soon you will cry. ;)

That's right, but Ukraine got $90B from Europe knowing most of it would come back for equipment purchases. Also - I think that EU is going to try to figure out a way to get that Russian money.

If they can't, then the EU should not exist - literally. It's decisive evidence that the bureaucracy can't even face an existential threat on it's own existence because it can't organize it's own legal concerns.

"We remained lawfully committed to juducial integrity and processes ... as we were exterminated!"

This situation is similar to 'many other things' (capital markets, tech investment, border/migration concerns etc.)

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#292

Post by kshacker »

jleyank wrote: post #225
ianm218 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump-like behavior isn't the inevitable result of the US System though. We could've had another 20 presidents in a row who didn't go and break the norm of maintaining global alliances and not threatening to invade our neighbors and closest allies constantly. So it's relevant to ask if this would still be happening without Trumps antics, even isolationists like JD Vance wouldn't force our allies hands like this.

Trump would have done nothing if he wasn’t aided and enabled by the rest of the government. There’s no indication this was a one off.

Sure, but look at the alternative. Oppose him and he will support your primary opponent, like it happened yesterday in Texas.

The problem is his pied piper like hold on the populace which happened because the parties did not actually try to solve the problems. Sure they did solve some, but then they closed their eyes to the evils their group demanded - sanctuary cities on one side, and "right to life" on the other side.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#293

Post by asdff »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #230
asdff wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leash or not, there was international support as a fact.

Great. I'm happy you're willing to recognize our fucking empire for what it is

Oh I get downvoted all the time for telling people about the american vassal states on HN. People, especially those living in these vassal states, seem to take offense to hearing that reality.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#294

Post by _carbyau_ »

bluegatty wrote: post #263
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

So I don't think 'buying US gear made you an ally' - it was just part of the package, and in some cases, the US would 'require allies' to buy. The US Ambassador to Canada is openly threatening Carney right now with some procurement things - the 'Big One' is the F35. This is Can PM Carney playing a decent card, and biding for time until the midterms, and then waiting out the 'lame duck' period. 'Border State Republica…

> Trump may not force the issue if he knows he's going to lose.

That didn't play out at the end of his last term. I don't think Trump is a "I've had a good run, lets call it a day." kinda guy...

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#295

Post by brightball »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252
bluegatty wrote: post #249

This is actually more likely a non-political procurement decision that looks like a political one. This is the 'right size' for Canada and other nations - the US doesn't offer a true comparable, and, looks like the US balked at buying the 'kind of comparable' Boeing E7 putting it in jeopardy. With European military renaissance and the SAAB gear proving itself in Ukraine ... well, you see the shift. This is the shift…

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing.

How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#296

Post by sobellian »

brightball wrote: post #295
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

Ukraine is still fighting. We don't need to send troops. We just need to keep sending weapons (Trump stopped this)

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#297

Post by jpleyden98 »

bluegatty wrote: post #291
lysace wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the EU still hasn't gotten the balls to confiscate that frozen oligarchy money, so no. Just wait, though. Soon you will cry. ;)

That's right, but Ukraine got $90B from Europe knowing most of it would come back for equipment purchases. Also - I think that EU is going to try to figure out a way to get that Russian money. If they can't, then the EU should not exist - literally. It's decisive evidence that the bureaucracy can't even face an existential threat on it's own existence because it can't organize it's own legal concerns. "We remained la…

> That's right, but Ukraine got $90B from Europe knowing most of it would come back for equipment purchases.

Thats standard for military aid to other countries. Almost all US military aid to Ukraine was spent in the US for equipment purchases. The benefit for Ukraine is getting the weapons to use in the war, although it's worth noting a decent portion of the military aid will be spent by ukraine on domestic manufacturers.

Also €30 billion is financial and humanitarian aid, almost all of which will be spent in ukraine proper.

> Also - I think that EU is going to try to figure out a way to get that Russian money.

It's already sending the interest on the money to Ukraine, that alone is worth billions a year.

Simply seizing the rest is more complicated and additionally probably not preferable. Keeping the rest immobilised gives europe and Ukraine a substantial bargaining chip in negotiations with Russia when the war eventually ends. Either Russia agrees to concessions to get the money back or it doesn't and it agrees the money can be sent to rebuild Ukraine.

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#298

Post by lux-lux-lux »

brightball wrote: post #295
adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past countries would buy American equipment even if it wasn’t the best fit because that would make you essentially an American ally. Being part of the U.S. ecosystem was valuable. Unfortunately, over the last 1.5 years, the political value proposition has turned by 180 degrees. - Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. But the U.S. has been tearing ag…

> Being a U.S. ally no longer guarantees that you will be protected by the U.S. as Ukraine is seeing. How much more is the US supposed to do in Ukraine beyond the $60-70 billion in weapons and supplies? Do we need to actually go to war with Russia?

New Ukraine aid effectively ended with the current administration, if you were unaware

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#299

Post by throwaway27448 »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #242
throwaway27448 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump? We invaded Korea, and then Vietnam, and a few hundred other interventions that don't seem to be sanctioned by the international community. All because of a hardon for ideology that doesn't seem to actually reflect the interests of the people who live here.

> We invaded Korea what a terrible bad faith arguemnt N Korea invaded the south and the UN voted to create a joint force in there to defend it.

We forcibly inserted our forces onto a peninsula to support a state that exterminated hundreds of thousands of people that nominally opposed it. If you want to call this something other than invasion that's your choice. We can all judge what character your faith takes

Re: Canada to order military plane fleet from Sweden in shift from US suppliers

#300

Post by throwaway27448 »

stickfigure wrote: post #275
red-iron-pine wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We invaded Korea what a terrible bad faith arguemnt N Korea invaded the south and the UN voted to create a joint force in there to defend it.

Not only is this true, there are about 50 million people in the south who are incredibly grateful for US involvement. And about 26 million people in the north who are, on average, several inches shorter than the southerners due to the end of US involvement.

The people in the north aren't worked to death tho
Post reply on HN