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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

arkadiyt.com

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#291
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any cars that support CarPlay/Android Auto that don't have built-in navigation/maps?

AFAIK, every single one of those "built-in navigation/maps" either require the car itself is internet connected (with its own modem), or that you every year get a SD card with map updates to stick into the car. I guess it's fine in an emergency, but I wouldn't want to use it day-by-day, the live traffic/road closure information in my case ends up saving us tons of time over the year.

It is also OK if you only use GPS 3 times per year.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#292
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give one of the mechanics $500 and I bet they’ll accidentally drop the password on the floor of the car as they get out after moving it inside to change the oil.

I bet if you can speak to the mechanic without the service advisor supervising the innteraction $100 would do it.

Yea but it’s worth at least $500 to me so I’d give the guy more, personally. $100 is a nice dinner out, $500 might help pay a bill.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#293
post #44

The 2024 Ford Maverick has a single fuse for the telematics unit that you can remove without throwing a code or an error. No idea if this remained true after the 2025-2026 refresh, but worth knowing. https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/telematics-f...

Kias have a “Massachusetts mode” flag hidden behind a service menu (that needs a dealer code) that disables telematics at the owner’s request. However, the service menu pin also has timeout protection that will inject a waiting period between retries so there is no guessing. I don’t think there’s convincing my dealer to get into the service menu and disabling it. I would presume that other manufacturers might have th…

> I would presume that other manufacturers might have this as well.

On newer vdubs there’s both a “location services” and a “offline mode” toggle in the infotainment, though this only turns the infotainment SIM off. Obviously this also disables remotely controlling the car using the app.

And the secondary eCall SIM cannot be disabled - not without triggering a fault code and a tell-tale. Since eCall is considered a safety-critical system it has self-monitoring and must work for the vehicle to pass inspection. It even has its own separate power supply. This is true for any vehicle (type) newer than ~2018 in the EU. This probably makes tracking the rough location of any eCall-equipped vehicle quite easy, if you have signaling-level access to the cell network – exactly like in all those SS7 exploits.

edit: turns out they thought about that and eCall modules aren’t supposed to constantly stay connected to a cellular network (dormant mode). Instead they only log onto the cellular network when needed. Difficult to verify as a consumer though.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#294
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same Going on a bit of a tangent, but deep packet inspection can identify packets routed using NAT, so if the phone is operating as a typical hotspot it would be identifiable by your carrier. Carriers in the USA used to block / denylist / charge extra for tethering using this exact approach.

Deep Packet Inspection presumably requires a certificate to be installed on my device to allow my connection to be MiTM'd.

DPI can refer to inspecting beyond just the headers, but since it's more of a marketing term than a technical one, you could also say you're "deeply inspecting" the IP headers of a packet and no-one would show up to arrest you for bad terminology.

Anyway, one way to detect NAT is to observe different TTLs originating from one device. Is that deep inspection? Probably depends on who you ask. The fact that you have to track information across multiple packets counts for something, though.

Off the top of my head I wouldn't really expect there to be much value in a MITM inspection of the contents of HTTP traffic for the purposes of NAT detection. You could probably come up with some scenarios in which it might be possible, but I'd content those scenarios aren't very practical. Easier to compare TTLs between packets, say, or track connections to known OS "phone home" destinations. While these just use information from the IP layer, they're stateful observations requiring comparisons across multiple packets, and that might count for something.

One way to detect a shitty carrier service, though, is that they're inspecting your traffic for "good" or "bad" uses of their service, because that is a good indicator that they're not just a carrier. I call it Dickish Practices Identification, or DPI.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#295
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> surely as far as the carrier is concerned, all traffic from the mobile device is the same Going on a bit of a tangent, but deep packet inspection can identify packets routed using NAT, so if the phone is operating as a typical hotspot it would be identifiable by your carrier. Carriers in the USA used to block / denylist / charge extra for tethering using this exact approach.

Deep Packet Inspection presumably requires a certificate to be installed on my device to allow my connection to be MiTM'd.

DPI is distinct from TLS MITM (though many enterprise devices offer both).

The delineation here is between "shallow" packet inspection (which basically nobody refers to because it's just a normal part of networking), where network devices look at just the bits of the packets they need to route / NAT / etc them appropriately.

DPI can tell a ton of things without needing to MITM encrypted layer 7 traffic.

A boring example is that you can tell TLS from OpenSSH traffic just by seeing the initial handshake. sslh ( https://github.com/yrutschle/sslh ) takes advantage of this on the server side to let you run both on the same port.

A less boring example is identifying OpenVPN, Wireguard, etc traffic regardless of what port they're run on, to enable blocking VPN traffic on a network.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#296

Can't do that in Fr*nce and likely other European countries, all vehicles must have eCall and your vechicle might not pass the mandatory routine check you need to do once in a while to be allowed on the road. Hope you like biking a lot.

TIL: > eCall was made mandatory in all new cars approved for manufacture within the European Union as of April 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECall

It's one thing for something to be mandatory original equipment, it's another for them to be necessary for passing an inspection (MOT / roadworthiness certificates). It's not mandatory in many countries, AFAIK.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#297
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t. Apple preserves backdoors in iCloud encryption to enable warrantless government surveillance. They have no other option.

It's weird to hang up on this specific item because they do actually offer an E2EE icloud option. Lose your key: lose your data. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108756

Nobody has it on, and unless BOTH sides are using it, your iMessage conversations are all readable by Apple, because they are backed up twice - one for each end.

This option is also disabled in the UK - an intentionally preserved backdoor for government access.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/122234

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#298
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kias have a “Massachusetts mode” flag hidden behind a service menu (that needs a dealer code) that disables telematics at the owner’s request. However, the service menu pin also has timeout protection that will inject a waiting period between retries so there is no guessing. I don’t think there’s convincing my dealer to get into the service menu and disabling it. I would presume that other manufacturers might have th…

I'm more afraid of the likelihood of someone smashing the window on a modern Kia thinking they can start it up with an iPhone lightning cable (just look up "Kia Boys" if you're confused by any of this) and drive off with it, when in fact, they cannot anymore. Unfortunately, until people stop breaking into Kias I'll avoid the brand in perpetuity.

[deleted]

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They beep when you go above the speed limit, and only for a couple seconds. If they do that 'constantly' the problem is in the driver's seat... It takes two seconds to turn off in my car (though by law it has to reset on every drive), but I never bother. In situations where it's "ok" to drive a little over the limit, it's a small price to pay and a gentle reminder.

The car probably doesn't have perfect knowledge of speed limits across Europe.

Why wouldn’t they?

Dataset is readily available for most places. Pull local on entry to jurisdiction on every drive…

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#300

> Important: Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. How is this the case? I thought bluetooth was just sharing my phone's audio. Why would it allow requests over the internet? Surely there's a way to tell the phone not to give its internet connection to any conne…

There is a bluetooth protocol for cars to piggyback on your phone's internet connection. There was an article about it here a couple of years ago but I've forgotten the name of the protocol, and trying to search for it turns up a lot of irrelevance.

The fix for this is a phone that doesn't implement that protocol, i.e. not Android or iOS.

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