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Maladaptive Frugality

herbertlui.net

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Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#291

Post by duskdozer »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #165
chromacity wrote: post #4

Most people in the US are pulled into living on credit straight out of school. You get a student loan, then a car loan, then a credit card, then a mortgage. You finance vacations, appliances, kitchen remodels, smartphones - mostly to keep up with friends and coworkers who finance their lifestyles too. A lot of people are in non-stop debt from the age of 18 to 55, if not longer. By most estimates, only about 10-20% of…

> By most estimates, only about 10-20% of US households are debt-free. This needs to be qualified with the fact that it doesn't make sense for many people to be debt-free if they are financially literate. I know many people, myself included, who carry debt they could easily pay off because it would be irrational to do so. Being debt-free would actually make them poorer. This often holds true even when ignoring obviou…

Depends on what "debt-free" means here: "not carrying any debt" vs "positive net worth" are different situations.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#292

Post by duskdozer »

square_usual wrote: post #186
duskdozer wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're the kind of person who can FIRE, you're not the kind of person who'll be happy on permanent vacation at the age of 40. Why do you think so? Some people just have more/less expensive tastes and wants than others.

Not because your tastes are expensive, but because you'll want to do productive work well into that time frame.

I think the issue is a widespread equation of "productive work" and "[wage] labor". Of course, a lot of people may not do much outside of work beyond watch TV (though how much of that is from tiredness from working at their job so much and dealing with the rest of life's obligations?), but plenty could fill their days with productive work that just happens not to align with what corporate institutions want to hire people for.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#293

Post by duskdozer »

steveBK123 wrote: post #105
dnnddidiej wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats more of a forecasting thing than frugality.

No that can be a frugality mindset of not wanting to pay the refinancing closing costs (which can be 5 figures) .. I've seen family make similar sorts of short term savings vs long term savings trade-offs.

It can, but the OC mentioned not refinancing because they thought they'd sell soon, which would mean they wouldn't get the long-term savings.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#294

Post by duskdozer »

badpun wrote: post #234
catlogbindiff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retiring early is a single guy internet myth. If you have a family, forget it. If you have a health condition, forget it. If you don’t have low risk investments, forget it. In the US health care can reset your bank account in the blink of an eye which is why so many many people in tech work until Medicare kicks in. Early retirement with a family is at least 10 mil in cash. Better enjoy your job because you’ll be doin…

Aren't there health insurance plans with a high deducible (say $10k) that are quite affordable? In your early retirement, you can cover catastrophic health failures with them, and pay for everything else out of pocket.

Sure, but there also are expenses that end up not counting toward the deductible. If something "isn't covered" by the plan, then it doesn't count. You can easily end up in a situation where you'll need to see less experienced or capable doctors due to the network, or where something you need is totally excluded, excluded in practice due to certain narrow shortages, or just gated by step therapy where you'll need to go through multiple cheap drugs before having the more expensive drug that is best suited to your condition, even if doing this is expected to result in poorer long-term health.

Of course, these things aren't exclusive to the cheap plans, but I'd encourage you to compare your employer's plans to some of the marketplace ones.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#295

Post by exceptione »

freetime2 wrote: post #39
chromacity wrote: post #4

Most people in the US are pulled into living on credit straight out of school. You get a student loan, then a car loan, then a credit card, then a mortgage. You finance vacations, appliances, kitchen remodels, smartphones - mostly to keep up with friends and coworkers who finance their lifestyles too. A lot of people are in non-stop debt from the age of 18 to 55, if not longer. By most estimates, only about 10-20% of…

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits. My mother, for ex…

  >  The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do
Your parents are smart. 1000 dollars for a phone is absolute nonsense. A luxury car is something you should be sure you will thoroughly enjoy, because they are a good way to set money on fire. If you do want one, buy it second hand, for it will cost hundreds of dollars per km for the first kilometers.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#296

Post by satvikpendem »

SoftTalker wrote: post #179
insensible wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going on your Slavic username: as an American who moved to a country without forced-air HVAC, it’s been quite a revelation to discover how backwards forced air really is.

Forced air is pretty necessary for air conditioning (cooling). For heat, radiant is nicer. But most people don't want to pay to have two completely separate climate control infrastructures in their house.

Heat pumps, they are one piece of infrastructure that work for both heating and cooling as it's a symmetric process.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#297

Post by eszed »

ubermonkey wrote: post #286
wallst07 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can I be wrong if this is all subjective in the first place? I've owned a number of cars, and this isn't just about luxury. It's about the quality of the drive. If you call HVAC and a Stereo luxury, then you haven't updated your definiteion relative to "1976 or 1985". Again, all purely subjective. But there is a huge idfference between a Prius and a drivers car.

You appear to have some reading comprehension issues. Perhaps revisit my prior reply. What specific benefits does a "driver's car" have over a "regular" car, praytell?

I'm not the guy you're asking, and you didn't need to be rude, but the difference is a fun driving experience. It's perfectly OK not to value that, but it's a valid priority.

I'm speaking here as an NA Miata owner. My car's waaay behind your Prius on the luxury scale: it's loud on the freeway, and rattles and bumps the whole time; there's no cruise control; the roof seals leak a bit if you don't close the windows / doors in just the right way; the AC's on the fritz at the moment, and I need to sand off and re-spray some peeling clear coat that makes it look dumb. I've put more time (and actual $$) into the car than its paper value should justify, but goddamn does dropping the roof and pulling out of the driveway put a silly smile onto my face every single time, and heel-and-toeing a downshift on a twisty road to hit the next corner just right never stops being a thrill.

"Upgrading" to a more expensive car would buy me the luxury and the fun together - together with a lot of engine power I don't need outside the track, and would frankly be scared of day-to-day - and (to the point of this thread) I'm kinda frugal, so I don't feel any need to do that. But "luxury" (even "comfort", sometimes) and "fun" are orthogonal values, in the automotive world, and you asked, so that's the answer.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#298

Post by Mezzie »

engineer_22 wrote: post #201
Mezzie wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of the roads in my city. They're disgusting . The reason is because the city charter mandates they have to take the cheapest bid. Of course the quality is crap and none of the fixes last! Fortunately, we just changed that, so hopefully it will get better.

If you'll allow me the grace to explain, I think the issue is more complicated than it seems at first glance. Procurement policy in USA is usually "lowest responsible bid", meaning you can reasonably expect that the contractor can complete the work without going bankrupt. With respect to the work itself, a competent civil engineer will provide for appropriate materials and handling to ensure the contractors are suppl…

In my particular case, I'm comfortable saying it's the charter only because I've lived in poorer municipalities with way worse tax bases in the same weather/climate and the roads were better - comparing municipal roads to municipal roads - and I've heard the council members talking about it.

But I didn't know that about the sublease layers in particular and the greater cost (and I assume time in addition to labor and materials, which would in turn require the road to be closed for longer and increase use of other roads + cause angry constituents). Now I do! Thanks! Also explains why our higher truck weight limit fucks the state's roads so much: I'd known that but not the reason specifically.

Thanks for sharing.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#299

Post by ubermonkey »

eszed wrote: post #297
ubermonkey wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to have some reading comprehension issues. Perhaps revisit my prior reply. What specific benefits does a "driver's car" have over a "regular" car, praytell?

I'm not the guy you're asking, and you didn't need to be rude, but the difference is a fun driving experience. It's perfectly OK not to value that, but it's a valid priority. I'm speaking here as an NA Miata owner. My car's waaay behind your Prius on the luxury scale: it's loud on the freeway, and rattles and bumps the whole time; there's no cruise control; the roof seals leak a bit if you don't close the windows / d…

>but the difference is a fun driving experience

I'm not convinced there's a materially more-fun driving experience to be had by spending gobs more money.

If you optimize for that instead of other aspects, then Prius money would get you a Miata with most of the same features and a sportier aspects. And you're still a long way from a six-figure car. That was the gist of my earliest point.

Re: Maladaptive Frugality

#300

Post by SkyeCA »

catlogbindiff wrote: post #136
RickJWagner wrote: post #112

Spending money sparingly is like reducing weight in an automobile. A car will get better gas mileage, go faster, break less often, and be more responsive with less weight. So it is with spending. When you spend less, you can retire earlier, your finances are more secure, you feel less pressure and stress, etc. You have more flexibility in the kinds of jobs you can take. Perhaps best of all, you end up accumulating le…

Retiring early is a single guy internet myth. If you have a family, forget it. If you have a health condition, forget it. If you don’t have low risk investments, forget it. In the US health care can reset your bank account in the blink of an eye which is why so many many people in tech work until Medicare kicks in. Early retirement with a family is at least 10 mil in cash. Better enjoy your job because you’ll be doin…

Retiring early is the only hope I have for the future, it's my singular goal. I'm not forgetting it because without it I will spiral in a bad way.

I hate working. The sooner I don't have to anymore the better.

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