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Men who stare at walls

alexselimov.com

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Re: Men who stare at walls

#291

Post by Zababa »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #187
dijksterhuis wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I do it "right" i get the scare quote usage. but still feel like it’s a good time to point out. there’s no right zazen. there’s no wrong zazen. there’s just zazen. sitting down and taking what comes. that’s all we’re doing. sitting down and getting quieter. emphasis on the -er in quieter. 30 minutes of “crap” zazen is probably the most rewarding zazen. i just don’t appreciate it at the time. something that hel…

something was bugging me so i’m adding a second comment. i often end up crying during zazen. i’ve done it for a couple of years. i was never really sure why. it was just a thing. i cried for 5 mins after about 20 mins and then just got back on with the last 5 mins. i (eventually) sat with an online group and they talked after sitting once about how zazen and zen aren’t there to deal with mental health issues. that’s…

There's a book I've read recently, "Sanity and Sainthood", that talks about meditation and psychotherapy. The idea is something like, imagine your mind is you sitting next to a pile of stuff that stinks, meditation builds the skill of tolerating the smell, psychotherapy removes directly some of the things that smell. Both of those can lead you to being fine in your mind.

As a concrete example, Shinzen Young says that he wouldn't trade a day of his life now, after lots of meditation, for a year before he started meditating, but also he didn't manage to deal with his procrastination through meditation and used psychotherapy here.

Another example of "not everything has to be dealt on during meditation", regular exercise, eating well, acting in a more honest/moral way (whatever those mean to you) all help meditation.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#292

Post by quietbritishjim »

lasftew wrote: post #247

OP mentions they are a coffee drinker, and use caffeine a lot to fight tiredness and brainfog. While the suggested methods to refocus are great, maybe there is some improvement potential by looking at root causes? As a former heavy coffee consumer, I experienced varying degrees of tiredness over my workday, and inconsistent sleep patterns. Ever since I stopped drinking it, my energy levels have been far more predicta…

A couple of observations from when I quit coffee (after being only a pretty mild drinker):

- I'd still get the feeling of "oh shit it's 4pm and I've not really started doing anything productive today". But then I'd look at the clock and it would be 10am and it turns out I still have the whole day ahead of me. The day passes so much slower that, even if it feels like your pace of work is a bit slower, you still get much more done overall.

- I'd get to sleep much faster (measurably because I would fall asleep before my partner, having previously got to sleep reliably after her). That applied even compared to days where I'd have coffee only before lunchtime. The idea that late-day tiredness from caffeine withdrawal helps get you to sleep is nonsense.

Having said that, I've relapsed back to a few cups a day. Logically I know I need to quit again.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#293

Post by muzani »

My and my partner made an app where you stare at yourself in the mirror for 5-30 minutes. You'd record how you feel after.

It's not "scientifically proven" to work but it's quantifiable that there's a clear improvement. We tried to scientifically prove it - the scientists were incredibly offended, lol.

So it can't be proven, but there's data. We started quantifying it because corporations asked for data. Nobody wants to buy an app where you record yourself staring at a mirror, so we don't charge for that. We end up charging for the data reporting, anonymization, data handling, etc.

There's some interesting data, like we find people who are highly stressed will get all kinds of diarrhea, vomiting, and angry if they crank it up to 30 minutes. So we designed it to start at 5 min/day for a week, then 10, then 15, slowly up to 30.

Staring at a mirror is a little different to staring at a wall, but I'd imagine the results are similar.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#294

Post by scrivna »

hellohihello135 wrote: post #284
lasftew wrote: post #247

OP mentions they are a coffee drinker, and use caffeine a lot to fight tiredness and brainfog. While the suggested methods to refocus are great, maybe there is some improvement potential by looking at root causes? As a former heavy coffee consumer, I experienced varying degrees of tiredness over my workday, and inconsistent sleep patterns. Ever since I stopped drinking it, my energy levels have been far more predicta…

Do you have any advice on how to quit? I would love to try not drinking caffeine but it just seems too hard.

Switch to decaf, same habit and ritual and mixes things up from plain water all day (which I enjoy).

Re: Men who stare at walls

#295

Post by Cthulhu_ »

inatreecrown2 wrote: post #286
baxtr wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don’t want to downplay the toxicity of smartphones, couldn’t the same be said for books and newspapers?

A smartphone, at least with a connection to the internet, is always new. There is always something new to see and hear.

Arguably, same with books and - even moreso - newspapers. I vaguely remember doomsaying about people only scanning newspaper headlines.

But think about it, a good newspaper has a mix of news, background, entertainment, opinions, adverts, etc - not unlike browsing reddit or twitter, it's a barrage of emotional ups and downs and items asking for your attention in different ways.

With that in mind I don't think the concept of distraction is new.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#296

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #10

Is this not a form of meditation? I've never been able to keep a meditation habit, but my understanding is that meditation techniques often feature closing your eyes and focusing on breathing, body parts or some other irrelevant thing, it sounds like staring at a wall would serve the same purpose.

I think there's many forms of meditation in that regard, some intentional, some cultural, some spiritual. Going to church on sunday can be considered a moment of meditation, no tech around etc.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#297

Post by michaelteter »

No mention of exercise. Shame.

But for staring at walls, I like to do that in the sauna. My mind sorts out so much stuff in that hot room that is like magic. Showers used to be that way for me, before I cared about water use.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#299

Post by pfooti »

topnde wrote: post #256
sersi wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And mostly reduced creativity. I'm addicted to reading, I take my kindle and phone everywhere, so will grab them when I'm walking, taking a shower, waiting in line, going to the restroom... Between my kindle and my phone, I read a lot more books than I ever did but I don't digest the information as much as I used to. I also don't make as much associations between what I read and things going on in my own life. So, in…

This is a bit outside the point, but how do you actually read while taking a walk, logistically speaking? Do you mean you take a walk somewhere, sit down on a bench, then take your kindle out? Or actually read WHILE walking?

I do this all the time. Hold your kindle or book far enough away that you have good peripheral vision of your surroundings. Practice widening your view so you can use your peripheral vision to guide your steps while you walk. Look up at intersections.

I can only do this with books. With my phone I am too focused on the phone to work in two visual modes at the same time, which I guess supports the claims.

Re: Men who stare at walls

#300

Post by herbertl »

Insanity wrote: post #178
hgomersall wrote: post #152

I've recently realised that the biggest problem with smartphones is not that they steal your attention (which is bad enough), but that they steal your disattention I don't know of a better word for it than disattention. Perhaps downtime? But it's not so structured. It's just those moments where you'd previously let your mind wander. Gone forever.

'boredom' is how I'd call it but it has a negative connotation. Being bored is useful, it lets your mind wander and it's where real creativity can happen. I read "Non-Things: Upheaval in the Lifeworld" recently and since reading that I make an effort to not pick up my phone as much. I'd recommend reading the book, if you're looking for something to do instead of doomscrolling.

This resonates with me! In a blog post, I wrote, "It has never been easier to avoid boredom. Distraction is all around you, offering to cover up the painful things you’re avoiding that boredom can sometimes be a gateway to.

Yet without boredom, there can be no inspiration. Boredom is the mud from which the flower of imagination blossoms. Your next creative idea is just one boring moment away." https://herbertlui.net/deliberate-boredom/

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