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Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

road.cc

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Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#291

Post by jrowen »

scoofy wrote: post #232
jrowen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if it comes to a lawsuit, sure, but the system is designed so that permitting and inspectors catch most of it. If you're trying to build your bathroom under the radar without a permit that's an entirely different analogy. But either way, it is the responsibility of the regulatory body to enforce. As other people have noted, this is not a Waymo problem, they're just following the status quo.

Again… it most definitely is a Waymo problem. Exactly the case with the ADA. Since GOOGL is responsible for Waymo behavior, they will be liable in a class action suit where they willfully violated the law, putting others in danger, in selling their product. There is not any way around it. You can avoid this issue like Lyft does, by having divers make that decision and by them being not worth suing, but GOOGL is worth…

Maybe, or, as we saw with ridesharing already, maybe they will change the laws. When push comes to shove, I don't believe there is enough will to overturn current practices to preserve the sanctity of the bike lane at the expense of car traffic.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#292

Post by xnx »

spankalee wrote: post #59

Cities that want to keep cars out of bike lanes should keep all cars out of them, autonomous or not, by ticketing them. But they don't, so taxis and delivery drivers stop in them. That's traffic enforcement's fault. Given that human drivers stop in bike lanes, Waymo then has a tradeoff: 1) Be the only ones to follow the letter of the law, break a lot of people's expectations, and catch backlash for disrupting traffic…

I commuted by bike 70 miles a week for a few years. Bike line obstruction was far down my list of concerns, behind: drivers looking at phones while driving, drivers looking at phones while stopped, drivers running stop signs without even noticing (probably looking at phone), driver speeding, cars belching smoke, etc.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#293

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #193
mmmattt wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, stop somewhere else ?

OK, where? A lot of streets simply don't have separate shoulders to pull over on. Or if they do, they're 100% occupied by on-street parking. The bike lane is effectively doing double-duty as the shoulder. Is Waymo supposed to drop you off 5 blocks away after circling for 20 minutes looking for an available parking spot, just to stop for 30 seconds to let you out?

[deleted]

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#294

Post by Jensson »

gsnedders wrote: post #266
valicord wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've quoted the rules which forbid parking and driving in the bike lane and then went on to confidently make up the part about stopping and dropping people off.

You cannot stop in a cycle lane to drop people off without first driving into the cycle lane.

That is technically correct but not how the language works.

"Advisory and mandatory cycle lanes, marked by a painted line, can be entered into by taxis and PHVs for pick-up and drop-off at the kerb edge"

You are allowed to drop off people in a lot of places you aren't allowed to drive or park.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#295

Post by Jensson »

embedding-shape wrote: post #72
l1n wrote: post #5

this is a pointer to https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2026/04/22/waymo-is-not-in-the-v... In San Francisco, the vehicles often pull into bike lanes to pick up and drop off passengers — because that’s what they’re programmed to do, according to advocates who’ve asked the company for an explanation. Waymo has told advocates that expecting it to respect bike lanes is “too high a bar” because customers expect to be dropped of…

I think the main context of the article is that this is in London though, where the rule is that you don't do that, and Waymo somehow seem to think that it should be OK anyways: > The Google-owned company, which officially launched its self-driving fleet in London earlier this month, has told cycling campaigners that it is “normal practice” for their taxis to veer into and block cycle lanes > According to the Highway…

It says that you are allowed to drop off passengers in bike lanes.

"Advisory and mandatory cycle lanes, marked by a painted line, can be entered into by taxis and PHVs for pick-up and drop-off at the kerb edge"

https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/walking-and-cycling-changes-o...

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#296

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #286
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not even close to how dense cities work. Even if you have street parking, it’s often saturated, this is like saying delivery drivers should just deliver in the middle of the night or something. Or really should go with small delivery drones.

I'd actually agree that they ought to deliver in the middle of the night but indeed that's just not how the world currently works. Far worse than bike lanes I've regularly seen large box trucks driven up onto particularly wide stretches of sidewalk in areas with skyscrapers. Law enforcement doesn't seem to care, presumably because how else are they supposed to get packages to where they need to be?

NYC used to (or still?) enforced strictly parking violations by delivery companies. But they did it so evenly the companies just considered it a cost of doing business, and raised their rates accordingly. Not violating the law and still being in the business wasn’t an option, so no competitor could undercut the other by following the rules and not paying the fine.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#297

Post by jiveturkey »

pavlus wrote: post #252
jiveturkey wrote: post #134

bit of an absolutist argument in california. can't speak to the UK. it's obviously safer (for cyclists) for taxis or even carpools to drop off and pick up at the far right, ie into the bike lane. i think we can generally consider it to be "parking" not "driving" and thus within the letter of the law as well. (parking is explicitly allowed.) we know this very well, and that's why there are curb-separated lanes and the…

I don't believe there is a country in the world, where parking on bike lanes is explicitly allowed. Merging before turns and stops for drop/pickup/load/unload sure. But not parking.

CVC 21209.a.1

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#298

Post by WillAdams »

monster_truck wrote: post #249
WillAdams wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing which I think would really help with bike lanes would be to standardize on placing underground utilities beneath them --- they'd be less expensive to dig up than a roadway structured for cars, and when maintenance is necessary, a cyclist can easily be diverted either onto the roadway (if staying on the bike) or to the sidewalk (if temporarily dismounting).

The width of a bike lane and its margins is not nearly enough space to safely trench deep enough with the equipment they already have to reach most things they need to tear roads up for. Even modest water mains can be 4ft in diameter, drainage and sewage twice that (in flood prone areas)

Okay then, such utilities as would comfortably fit then.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#299

Post by ghaff »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #289
ghaff wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're making a right-hand turn in the US as a driver and there's a protected bike lane you're crossing through that lane to turn. And, when I sit outside in the summer at one of my usual restaurants with sidewalk seating, there are any number of horrifying combinations of bicycles, ebikes, escooters, and things that look like electric motorcycles routinely blowing through the red light at the adjacent intersectio…

You cross through the intersection. You don't treat it like an extra lane to pass traffic on the left which some drivers like to do when there is sufficient space or no curb.

The road signage even says to get in the right lane after the bus stop where the bike lane temporarily ends.

Re: Waymo says can't avoid bike lanes because riders want to be dropped off in them

#300

Post by amanaplanacanal »

stonogo wrote: post #247
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Street side parking is fine It’s a massive subsidy that takes up space. If you have the space to move it and still permit e.g. delivery trucks from blocking the road, great. Many cities don’t have that space and yet cede it to parking.

Nothing's stopping you from charging for street parking. If it's a subsidy, that's a political decision, not an inherent flaw in street parking.

I believe Stroup showed a long time ago that the best solution is to price parking so that there is an average of one empty parking spot per block.
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