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Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#291

Post by __turbobrew__ »

mort96 wrote: post #241
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could change the platform/firmware to break Asahi if they wanted to. They could lock down the hardware to make it nearly impossible to install another OS like they do with iphone.

I mean so could any other hardware vendor? No Mac in history has been locked down in the way you describe, and there's really no indication that Apple would start now. If they were ever going to, the ARM transition would've been the perfect time to do it, yet they invested engineering resources into adding support for booting non-Apple kernels into their bootloader. They could of course release a new line of laptops…

Most hardware vendors don’t make operating systems, so they are not incentivized to limit what software can run on the hardware.

For example, intel and AMD contribute a lot of code and engineering hours to open source projects because they WANT people to be able to run that software on their hardware.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#292

Post by cromka »

rasz wrote: post #240
saadn92 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer is probably simpler than anyone here is making it. Apple hardware margins are healthy enough that selling macbooks to linux users is pure profit, so no services lock-in needed. However, the moment they officially acknowledge Linux support, then it becomes a support surface. Every kernel panic becomes a genius bar visit. Every driver bug becomes a tweet at @AppleSupport. It's the value of plausible den…

No, selling laptops to Linux users is loss of services revenue, which is currently at 25% of total Apple takes and ~40% of all profit.

I am baffled by how people commonly parrot that flawed logic. Hint: by not seeling those laptops to Linux users they're not making money at all, neither on hardware nor on services.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#293

Post by cromka »

GeekyBear wrote: post #227
hu3 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will probably be barely useful by the time M6 launches!

Given they first discussed starting the M3 work in the February progress report, I'm less pessimistic.

The real challenge is the significantly different GPU and Asahi no longer has Alyssa on their side.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#294

Post by __turbobrew__ »

tomnipotent wrote: post #265
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple could change the platform/firmware to break Asahi if they wanted to. They could lock down the hardware to make it nearly impossible to install another OS like they do with iphone.

They could, but that wouldn't change that there's still no legal basis that jeopardizes anything that's already been contributed.

Sure, there is no legal issue with these contributions. The problem is why would a project like Debian spend a bunch of work stewarding the Asahi project when Apple can just make the project impossible to progress if they so desire? The Debian project already is strapped for resources to build their distribution and stewarding a possibly throw away project is probably not the best use of their time.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#295

Post by walterbell »

internet2000 wrote: post #50
bjelkeman-again wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers build many of the applications that make the platform desirable. Steve Ballmer at least seem to get that part. ;)

The developers for their platforms. Which, crucially, Linux developers are not.

Apple Macbooks support virtualization of Linux on MacOS.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#296

Post by mjg59 »

anthk wrote: post #274
mjg59 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense - HDA systems were overwhelmingly the majority of Linux systems at that point, and didn't have any hardware support for multiple streams. OSS with software mixing was a commercial product that wasn't upstream. ALSA had userspace mixing but it was very much not an out of the box experience, and didn't take advantage of hardware capabilities in the way Pulseaudio did to reduce wakeups and power consumption.

ALSA had DMIX by default, all that before Pulseaudio. I remember Knoppix and a few more doing that.

DMIX was typically not an out of the box default, and had multiple shortcomings.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#297

Post by bigyabai »

gigatexal wrote: post #276
bigyabai wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have a dGPU? My simple Intel iGPU Thinkpad hasn't had any noticeable Wayland-related issues in the past 3-4 years.

This is the delulu Linux world thinking all over again. “Just get one with no dGPU, just this chipset, just this and this escoteric thing” and you’ll be fine.

This is how macOS works, too. "Just buy this M.2 adapter and this transcode card but not that GPU" and your hardware will be supported for two major releases.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#298

Post by einsteinx2 »

nicoburns wrote: post #270
trueno wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do we ever get apple engineers rolling thru here or on mastodon? wish stuff like this wasn't such a black box behind the scenes. i think the only time ive ever run into an apple engineer was on mastodon related to gptk it was interesting to see they actually are quite tuned into what is possible on these devices and what that could mean for gaming. despite being a developer toolkit to help studios get a read on the w…

> do we ever get apple engineers rolling thru here or on mastodon? wish stuff like this wasn't such a black box behind the scenes. Very rarely. I believe because Apple has a culture of secrecy and contractually forbids employees from sharing details about their work in most circumstances (and actually enforces this).

I used to work there and can confirm this. They beat it into you during training when you’re first hired that anything you say can become viral news or be attributed as an official statement from Apple and they are strict about enforcement.

There’s also extreme secrecy both between teams on different projects and even between teams within the same project just working on different parts of it. At least that was my experience.

I did enjoy my time there, but it was a very unique/strange development culture.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#299

Post by Klonoar »

trueno wrote: post #266
ryandrake wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a little pedantic, but we're not talking about a default among the many other available options supported by the chip. We're talking about 48 or 96 kHz being intentionally (or unintentionally) made the only allowed options. So either someone said "we must disallow the other options" or they didn't and it's a bug.

do we ever get apple engineers rolling thru here or on mastodon? wish stuff like this wasn't such a black box behind the scenes. i think the only time ive ever run into an apple engineer was on mastodon related to gptk it was interesting to see they actually are quite tuned into what is possible on these devices and what that could mean for gaming. despite being a developer toolkit to help studios get a read on the w…

We’ve had a few over the years but it’s usually after they’ve left.

E.g, an AppKit engineer or two, or the primary dev behind Rosetta 2. Not so sure of any hardware-engineers tho.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#300

Post by eightysixfour »

random_human_ wrote: post #228
eightysixfour wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login. I worked on it for a day, still couldn’t get any desktop except a terminal.Tried a different distro, it booted but no matter what resolution or refresh rate, the display showed severe artifacts when scrolling. Tried to fix it for a few days, gave up. I am not a Linux novice, I have been using every m…

I have installed different Linux distros in 4-5 devices in the last year, including a laptop with an Nvidia GPU and a random NUC off Aliexpress. In all cases everything worked out of the box after a fresh installation--and as far as I remember the situation was the same ~10 years ago, when I first started using it. There are hiccups here and there, but nothing I cannot live with. I do tech support for my girlfriend'd…

> I have installed different Linux distros in 4-5 devices in the last year, including a laptop with an Nvidia GPU and a random NUC off Aliexpress. In all cases everything worked out of the box after a fresh installation

How interesting! This mirrors my experience with some of my devices, and not with some of my others.

> All this wall of texts to say that, respectfully, when you write >Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login the issue might simply be that you are doing something very wrong and/or not following the proper instructions for whatever distro you are using.

Ahh yes, the complicated instructions of writing the ISO to a thumb drive, running the installer, and trying to login after the installation is complete.

My sin was using a current gen nvidia GPU (a 5080) and a 4K monitor with high refresh rates. This unprecedented combo fails to make the transition from SDDM to Plasma Wayland with the latest (at the time) nvidia drivers baked into the distros I tried. Fortunately, I wasn't alone in this issue based on the forum posts across a couple of distros, so I can be confident that at least some others failed to hold it right as well.

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