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Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

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Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#291
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been seeing some version of "Sam Altman is the antichrist" on every platform in the last few weeks. I'm still trying to find concretely what makes this guy so bad compared to every executive out there. So far, all I could find is: - OpenAI made a deal with the Pentagon (fair) - OpenAI changed their business model from non-profit to for-profit (fair?) - Sexual assault allegations by his sister. Sam Altman denies…

> Lobbying against regulations (I support) one US mindset I can't wrap my mind around

There's a reason why OpenAI and Anthropic (and before them Google, Apple, Meta, etc.) were started in the US and not Europe. And let's not compare salaries we each get for similar work because that tends to make my European friends very sad.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#293
post #16
post #7

In case someone reading this is thinking similar thoughts: there's no version of reality where doing this will solve any problem. Don't.

Its not really about that though is it? The people who are doing this stuff are unhinged but why? Perhaps they do not trust law and order. Perhaps they feel helpless and have been led to believe its over for the labour class due to the overhyped marketing and so on. A serious frank conversation needs to be had and the hyping needs to stop.

I think it's entirely fair for the average american to no longer trust the courts to provide justice against the rich, given your current political environment.

Or, if you truly believed AI was a threat and represented material harm and managed to get standing to bring a suit, you are looking at years and years and years of litigation.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#294
post #290
post #281

Violence against datacenters or AI company CEOs is very bad, they must be allowed to fail organically so that they don't have any excuse. The last thing I want is for someone, in 2029, to say "but LLMs just weren't given a fair chance last time, we would have definitely reached AGI with more funding if it wasn't for [targeted attack]"

"they must be allowed to fail organically so that they don't have any excuse." Didn't work for a german political party some centuries ago, don't work for this. But violence is false.

Right now your comment is the 1st response for the 1st comment. Godwin's law speedrun I guess.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#295

I am seeing information about the attacker that show he was being influenced by Rationalist thinkers - he posted about “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies” by Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares. This information of course might be false, so take the words below with a grain of salt. I might be completely wrong. When an influential group in the Valley that has ties to many tech companies spends years speading rhetoric…

Yudkowsky, like Altman, isn't a great public speaker*: too close to the in-group, not aware enough of how the words he uses are understood by people who don't already Get It. Ironically for AI safety, I think Yudkowsky and Altman are, if not on the same page, extending the metaphor they're on the same chapter.

Some random people with a gun and a Molotov aren't even the same (metaphorical) book.

* likely still better than me though, even on this specific measure. But even being the ten thousandth best speaker on the planet, out of 8 billion, leaves you at a huge disadvantage compared to the best.

> bombing data centers

At the risk of demonstrating the exact mistake I've just accused Yudkowsky and Altman of:

With B-52s, not as a DIY job with home-made Molotovs.

If you start with the claim "AI has the potential to cause as much harm as nuclear weapons", and "the USA already uses B-52s to enforce the non-proliferation treaty", this follows naturally.

If you're not willing to call on your representative to sign a binding international treaty to stop data centres that forcefully, talking about "stopping AI" or "pausing AI" seems hollow, because even if your government agrees to not build data centres near you as a result of low-grade domestic terrorism, in the absence of a credible threat to use a B-52 on someone else's sovereign territory there's nothing that you and your flaming rag in a bottle of petroleum distillate can do about them being built outside your country, in exactly the same way and for exactly the same reasons that German public opposition to nuclear weapons completely failed to influence North Korea.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#297
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a LOT of stages between "resigning and doing nothing" and "deadly violence" that have some effect. Demonstrations are a start, though they seem to be more useful for networking inside a group and forcing the press to pay attention to some matter. Decision makers can easily ignore them. What's less easy to ignore are strikes, especially general strikes, as e.g. port workers in Italy threatened during the tot…

Not just strikes: go-slows, work-to-rules, using whatever power you have at whatever level to act more ethically. Also: disinvestment, boycotts, public shunning, adverse publicity, picketing, blockades. Start small, increase the pressure over time, be clear about what you're doing and why.

Given what AI has always been about, since well before LLMs, go-slows and work-to-rules aren't going to help, they'll just speed up transitions to AI.

The disinvestment, boycotts, public shunning, adverse publicity, picketing, blockades, I can see those working. Certainly seems to have an impact in the video game news I see.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#298
post #7

In case someone reading this is thinking similar thoughts: there's no version of reality where doing this will solve any problem. Don't.

Agreed. I'm not, by any means, a fan of Altman's. But this kind of nonsense is counterproductive.

By sending bombs to people Ted Kaczynski made the "should we really do this" discussion of technology off limits for decades.

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of sentiment, on its own, is hollow. Just more "violence bad", until the next round. There is growing anger and discontentment in a large part of the population, driven by inequality of wealth and power. Hopelessness and a lack of control over the future. Are the nodes of power willing to spread wealth and control more widely to stabilize the country? What are they willing to do to consolidate their power?…

If you talk to the average individual outside of California or NYC about AI, or even Waymos, they will get increasingly irate and start spouting off about “water usage” and everyone’s jobs getting taken away—as if RLHF contract work is not available to basically anyone with a college degree. I hate to say it but you cannot trust “the masses,” Marx never said mob rule, he said rule by the proletarian, the class which…

The masses seem kind of right to be in that mindset, if you consider it from thier point of view for even one second?

So, yes RLHF is available right now, for people with specific backgrounds. That RLHF work is temporary and it's going to make hundreds of thousands of people redundant. The RLHF work is actually job-negative, it is work which will later deprive others of a way to make a living.

Once that training work dries up, what happens to the people who were doing the job which AI now does? How do they pay rent? How do they feed and clothe themselves? What answers do any AI proponant actually have for this, or is the intention that every person shuts the critical thinking part of their brain off and trusts the computer will come up with something?

Re: Sam Altman's home targeted in second attack

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of sentiment, on its own, is hollow. Just more "violence bad", until the next round. There is growing anger and discontentment in a large part of the population, driven by inequality of wealth and power. Hopelessness and a lack of control over the future. Are the nodes of power willing to spread wealth and control more widely to stabilize the country? What are they willing to do to consolidate their power?…

If you talk to the average individual outside of California or NYC about AI, or even Waymos, they will get increasingly irate and start spouting off about “water usage” and everyone’s jobs getting taken away—as if RLHF contract work is not available to basically anyone with a college degree. I hate to say it but you cannot trust “the masses,” Marx never said mob rule, he said rule by the proletarian, the class which…

This isn’t my experience at all when talking to non-techies all over the country.
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