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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#291

Post by pj_mukh »

kube-system wrote: post #103
bsimpson wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know little about this region. Why would it be unreasonably more expensive to build on one side of the state line than another?

I don't know about this particular situation (NH and MA seem to have expensive power as well), but you can have significantly different costs on one side of the line or the other for regulatory reasons. State regulations can affect the cost of business significantly, and electricity is no exception.

Fascinating. First you NIMBY the power, then you cite the power shortages to NIMBY the data centers. Win. Win.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#292

Post by mediaman »

no_wizard wrote: post #202
mediaman wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loudoun County in Virginia generates $1 billion in property tax revenues from data centers. It funds half of all of their expenditures. Can you imagine having half of your total municipal government budget being paid for by data centers? Their citizens pay much lower property tax rates, and get much better schooling and police. Henrico County (also VA) took $60 million in unexpected new revenues from data centers and…

They’re an anomaly that benefits from a number of factors like being close to the government for contracting, early data centers built there and they tended to congregate and dumb luck. They’re an outlier and don’t really prove much of anything. Oregon has lots and lots of data centers and not much to show for it on any front, other than higher electric prices for consumers

Oregon gave a lot of time-limited property tax breaks. They also don't have a sales tax.

So I would agree that giving away the #1 way that data centers contribute to the government isn't optimal, though you could argue it's a long-term play.

As the tax break terms expire, Oregon will get $450 million in annual property taxes from the data centers, or about 1.4% of the state budget.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#293

Post by trollbridge »

mediaman wrote: post #150
bigfatkitten wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a data centre brings absolutely no economic benefit whatsoever to its local community, unlike something like an auto plant that creates entirely new supporting industries to support it and its employees.

Loudoun County in Virginia generates $1 billion in property tax revenues from data centers. It funds half of all of their expenditures. Can you imagine having half of your total municipal government budget being paid for by data centers? Their citizens pay much lower property tax rates, and get much better schooling and police. Henrico County (also VA) took $60 million in unexpected new revenues from data centers and…

Perhaps part of the problem here is that most towns that have proposals for AI data centres (including my own) have the developers demanding 10 year tax abatements, so we aren't going to see any of that tax revenue.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#294

Post by trollbridge »

rangerelf wrote: post #54
strongpigeon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxing them to account for the externalities they bring.

This right here is the right take.

Might have the effect of making it uneconomic, though, and then they wouldn't get built.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#295

Post by fc417fc802 »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #263
fc417fc802 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Electric vehicles have been threatening to collapse residential grids for quite a few years now. The US hasn't been making the necessary infrastructure investments for a long time. See PG&E for example.

For something the size of the electrical grid, you can find regional variations, but the national trend is quite clear. One report from a quick search[0] Consumption Growth Acceleration: After 14 years of near-stagnant growth (0.1% annually from 2008-2021), US electricity consumption surged 3.0% in 2024, driven by data centers, electric vehicles, and economic recovery, signaling a new era of demand growth. [0] https:…

TBF multiple things can be true. A period of stagnation, a failure to perform sufficient upkeep, and a failure to keep up with new demand.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#296

Post by blululu »

bsimpson wrote: post #89
seniorThrowaway wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why people think Texas doesn't have natural beauty. It's a huge state.

I'm from Nevada, another state that people presume is all desert. (Really, it's all mountains.) The only part of Texas I've driven is between Austin and S Antonio. It was perhaps the least-beautiful wilderness I've driven through. It really did just feel like desert and billboards - like if Walmart was a highway. But I also presume Texas marketing itself as a less-regulated alternative (e.g. to California) is why it'…

Nevada is a gem. Way too dry but incredibly beautiful with some truly unique features (ancient trees, hot springs, strange minerals, clear dark night skies). Eastern/central Texas is far less interesting.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#297

Post by culi »

tt24 wrote: post #203
alex43578 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Strange that suddenly they don’t seem to like this concept so much anymore :) “I support the right of $state to ban $thing” Wait, not like that!

States don't have "rights", people do. I don't support any state's power to take away any human's rights. And bootlickers who do shouldn't have the chance to act out their fascistic fantasies

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#298

Post by CuriouslyC »

seniorThrowaway wrote: post #6
piker wrote: post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

Don't know why people think Texas doesn't have natural beauty. It's a huge state.

I've driven through all of Texas twice, and had to spend time in Austin and Houston for work, but never had to live there, so I'd like to think I'm informed without being biased.

Besides the heavily oak covered hill country west of Austin it's pretty much the ugliest landscape in the country. I will admit the west Texas desert is less ugly than the desert of southern Arizona/eastern California, but north/east Texas is the flattest, least interesting part of the Mississippi basin (Nebraska/Kansas/Oklahoma are similarly meh but you don't have the insane humidity).

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#300

Post by dyauspitr »

Why? Why are progressive being regressive about this? What exactly is so wrong with data centers? They use electricity? Then just demand more power plants not some NIMBY bullshit that will just result in data centers being made in other countries. It’s not like they’re polluting anything. What exactly is so terrible about servers running quietly in a building.
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