Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's way too much misdirected emphasis on the pope and ecclesiastical hierarchy imo. I wouldn't think too hard about it. You can be catholic and not like the pope just the same as you can be french and not like the king. Or american and not like the president. There is only one divinity on earth today and that's the holy spirit (consubstantial with the father and son), indwelling and guiding humanity on many level…
>You can be catholic and not like the pope Quick, read the Nicene creed aloud right now...
The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
291–300 of 332 posts
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#292Wow. I knew the current administration was bad but this is something extra. It also shows the short-sightedness of the "scholars" in the administration. Sure, the Avignon Papacy did occur, that's historical fact. It's also a historical fact that the Catholic Church is an actually ancient power broker in the world still and they have been around for much, much longer than the United States. The Church is actually quit…
> I saw a headline in NYT today saying this current historical situation is the United States "Suez Crisis" moment. From the get go it looked like an engineered "Suez Crisis", on the inside and out. Nobody with real power is that dumb. > Hard to disagree and hard to see how America recovers from this. Hard or not, there's no alternative to recovery.
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#293The U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See is on record saying this is a fabrication? https://xcancel.com/BrianBurchUSA/status/2042307511504519366 I'm going to put this in the "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" bin.
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you would expect a typical Trump political appointee, as Colby is, to have even basic historical knowledge, then you may not be paying close attention.
Colby went to Harvard and Yale, and worked at State. Of course he knows history. Would be like claiming a Stanford guy doesn't know programming
Or this guy? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/18/jared-...
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
The president can threaten to wipe out a civilization without any meaningful repercussions. I'm calling them idiots, which they are. No doubt if they thought it wouldn't cause excessive embarrassment anxiety in the president they'd try to murder the pope.
They are idiots with nuclear weapons and a complete lock on all three branches of government. They are also immune to embarrassment.
No, they, especially one of them has EXTREME anxiety about his image, just not in the way that normal people do. He's got the psychology of an anxious child wanting to please a neglectful father. This is why TACO. And why every third word is some ridiculous boast about something nonsensical. This is insecurity driven politics and its WHY HE GOT ELECTED. Fear and insecurity electing what they imagine strength to be.
What would the stupidest, most insecure, adult child think is the pinnacle of strength? ... yup.
And the attention economy is being set up to exploit this demographic because it's the lowest common denominator and it WORKS.
Evolutionarily it's some kind of mechanism to weed out the weaknesses in a population by exaggerating them so it's easier for natural selection to weed them out? Or punishing the rest of us for not doing enough about it before it got so bad... something like that.
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
Laziness, and only marginally caring about this international drama that affects me not in the slightest
Oh I am so excited to see what happens to you next from this. But you'll never connect the dots. It will be "just" a layoff, "just" higher prices for everything, "just" a mortgage of 10% and stagflation everywhere on Earth. Buckle up, my insouciant friend; you will find the future both hard and surprising.
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#297Worth noting: the source of this claim is anonymous, and so far the framing of the statement feels a little more radical than maybe what was said in the meeting. Other news publications are trying to get the full story: https://x.com/jdflynn/status/2042076430406672829?s=46&t=u6IW... I wouldn't put anything past the current admin, but I don't know what the US could stand to gain from directly antagonizing the Vatican.
While it sounds like the discussion was "tense" according to Vatican officials, it was blatantly mischaracterized in TFA, and nobody on either side recalls the Avignon papacy being mentioned or referred to.
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#298A fan of niche medieval history might have threatened the pope with an Outrage of Anagni, much cooler reference than Avignon
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
well, ~21% of americans are catholic
"are Catholic" is so fuzzy though. "identify as" and "practices" are wildly different experiences, at least on the receiving end. I'm sure that percentage is mostly consisting of "identify as" rather than "practicing".
Re: The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy
#300The U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See is on record saying this is a fabrication? https://xcancel.com/BrianBurchUSA/status/2042307511504519366 I'm going to put this in the "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" bin.
If it is a fabrication, why did the pope cancel his visit to the US or at least - as some news outlets put it - may not visit... - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
That's still a good question, though. Do any of them have anything more substantial than 'anonymous' sources, or even their own anonymous sources not linked to the breaking article's?
I am generally suspicious when anonymous sources quoted these days, but I am rather more suspicious of reports that only come from a single source and get repeated in multiple outlets more or less immediately.
I know there is some amount of synchronicity induced by syndicated news feed outlets like AP, but like many single source/anonymous stories, this reads to me like some 'suggested copy' was sent out to some reporters or outlets ahead of time.
Anonymous sources are important for the integrity of reporting, but it must also be recognized that they are essentially non-authenticatable information.
The author of the secondary source I see most mainstream sources quoting (Mattia Ferraresi) has also come out and said people are stretching and misrepresenting what he wrote: https://xcancel.com/mattiaferraresi/status/20424925662396866...
There is at least one outlet that appears to have asked the both Pentagon and the Church what was up and both parties told them the meeting was overstated as well: https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/nuncios-pentagon-meeting-wa...