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81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

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Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#291

Post by jjav »

9rx wrote: post #278
ryandrake wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this guy has the money for a season pass (!) he has the money for a smartphone. This logic justifies buying any other unrelated product as a condition of being allowed to buy baseball tickets. Does this mean that the Dodgers should be able to make "owning a car" also a condition of being allowed to buy baseball tickets? After all, if you can afford season tickets, you should be able to afford a car payment. Mayb…

> I can't think of any other case pre-smartphone, where I'd be denied the ability to buy a product simply because I didn't want to have to buy another totally unrelated product as a condition. Then you must not have been around pre-smartphone? Those of us who were will remember having to buy either banknotes or checks. Later, some would accept a certain type of card that you could buy. If you weren't willing to buy a…

None of this is comparable lock-in. You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors and none had any lock-in on you. You could use a different vendor each time if you wanted. By certain type of card I assume credit cards, which can also be had from thousands of different banks.

Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies.

Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a game.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#292

Post by rolandog »

kleiba wrote: post #200

My wife and I had an appointment last week to apply for a line of credit. We talked it all through with the clerk and decided to go for it, so he started the whole process on his computer. His jaw dropped half-way through when he asked for my wife's and my phone number, and I had to tell him that I don't own a smart phone. Turns out you must have a smart phone because the system sends you some kind of code to verify…

Had a similar process when helping my parents settle in after relocating to Spain recently. I ended up having to ask an acquaintance to put down their phone so I could get some verification codes or information about an appointment in order to sign them up for... a Home internet + mobile phone lines bundle.

Cherry on top of this dystopian situation was that the number needed to be a Spanish phone number. Couldn't be from a different country code.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#293

Post by pc86 »

tracker1 wrote: post #95
daedrdev wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im going to be harsh, sorry. In this case nobody is forcing them to buy a dodgers ticket. It’s a completely optional and absurdly expensive luxury good that is purely for leisure. They can simply not but a ticket if they don't want to accept conditions of sale.

Yeah... I mean, who says I should have to put in wheelchair ramps for my ballpark that seats tens of thousands? I mean, so few people use/need them, I should just be able to refuse service to those people. Right? /sarc

I don't want to blow your mind but choosing not to have a smartphone and being in a wheelchair are not remotely comparable.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#294

Post by pc86 »

trollbridge wrote: post #160
pc86 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

80 year old people do not have the same neuroplasticity as 20 year olds. It is not reasonable to expect them to quickly learn new things that are constantly changing. In particular, it's very reasonable to be 80 and decide "I don't want to deal with learning how to use a smartphone and getting one".

> It is not reasonable to expect them to quickly learn new things that are constantly changing.

Of course it is. Maybe if we didn't normalize people refusing to learn things for no other reason than "I don't wanna" they'd have better neuroplasticity.

> it's very reasonable to be 80 and decide "I don't want to deal with learning how to use a smartphone and getting one".

I agree with you 100% on this but it doesn't logically follow from that that you get to make the Will Call clerk for the Dodgers print your ticket for every game even though you've been told for multiple years that season tickets are going paperless as an anti-scalping measure.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#295

Post by pc86 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #172
pc86 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think the discourse is about just this one guy, it's about an entire class of people for whom swiping around a smartphone is a bewildering experience they managed to live their whole life so far without. If you're not adept at it, it makes you feel stupid, maybe you haven't had that experience but there's more to being a luddite than stubbornness. If I can get along with the rest of my life on a flip phone, i…

> If I can get along with the rest of my life on a flip phone, it seems pretty unreasonable to buy a device just to buy sports tickets.

I would agree. It also seems unreasonable to expect the organization to make an exception to a completely legitimate anti-scalping measure for one person.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#296

Post by Lammy »

tim-tday wrote: post #271
dghlsakjg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law that he can invoke in a weaponized way is the ADA. It’s vague enough about what a disability is, that something like “my hand tremor and farsightedness preclude using a touchscreen, I request a reasonable accommodation” is a valid request. If they deny admission and accommodation to somebody incapable of using a smartphone, there is a whole army of lawyers that will gladly take the case on contingency. As you…

There is a special ring of hell reserved for people who abuse the ADA. Such abuse is an insult to everyone who needs it, everyone who engages with it in good faith, everyone who spends gobs of money to make events and services accessible to those with genuine need. I don’t rule the world but if I did abusers of protective rules would be summarily executed. (Don’t vote for me. I’ve got a short but significant list of…

I don't agree that using the ADA in this way would be abuse.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#297

Post by ryandrake »

jjav wrote: post #291
9rx wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of any other case pre-smartphone, where I'd be denied the ability to buy a product simply because I didn't want to have to buy another totally unrelated product as a condition. Then you must not have been around pre-smartphone? Those of us who were will remember having to buy either banknotes or checks. Later, some would accept a certain type of card that you could buy. If you weren't willing to buy a…

None of this is comparable lock-in. You could buy checks from hundreds of different vendors and none had any lock-in on you. You could use a different vendor each time if you wanted. By certain type of card I assume credit cards, which can also be had from thousands of different banks. Also, credit cards are free to get and checks cost a few pennies. Not remotely comparable to being forced to buy a phone to get to a…

Every bank and credit union I've banked with provides free checks, a free debit card, and no fees for ATM cash withdrawals.

If my bank gave me a free smartphone, I might be OK with using it for commerce. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know if I have a strong opinion on that one.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#298

Post by tjohns »

dmitrygr wrote: post #196
LadyCailin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how exactly this should be worded in law, but I really wish they would pass a law requiring supporting people without smartphone apps. Obviously there would be some exceptions where justified, even for things other than “the app is the whole point” and those need to be thought through, but in this case and plenty of others, there’s just no reason they can’t accommodate non app users. “It costs more to su…

> I’m not sure how exactly this should be worded in law No policy or law shall be enacted that directly or indirectly requires a use of a computing device where any other alternative at all is possible. Where offering other alternatives presents a cost, that cost (and only that cost, with no markup) may be passed on to the consumer.

That could still get prohibitively expensive. Take the example from this article, where there's only one person still using the paper ticket option...

I could see someone arguing you need a specially trained staff member or supervisor to verify your ID for anti-scalping, which they don't need to do for other e-tickets. Say only one person uses this option all season, they could be asked to pay for an entire employee's salary/benefits.

It's a bit hyperbolic, but supporting non-standard workflows is organizationally expensive with many non-quantifable costs.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#299

Post by adamsb6 »

red_admiral wrote: post #69
andrewla wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ticket counterfeiting is the core problem that they are trying to prevent. If there's a fallback method then that fallback method can be abused to forge tickets. EDIT: I know complaining about downvotes is a downvotable offense itself, but I'm genuinely curious as to what is objectionable about this comment.

China's solution: your passport is your ticket. Not great for privacy, but persumably you also want to check that people banned from a stadium for their behaviour don't get in anyway.

It's very elegant.

The first time we traveled domestically in China I kept thinking that my wife had to be mistaken, there has to be some kind of confirmation we need to show in order to board. But nope, it literally is just show up with your ID.

Re: 81yo Dodgers fan can no longer get tickets because he doesn't have a smartphone

#300

Post by carlosjobim »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #281
carlosjobim wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a case like this, you just buy the tickets for your grandfather and print them out for him.

If the app is meant to defeat counterfeits or reselling the Dodgers won’t be willing to accept printed tickets.

It's not possible to make counterfeits with a modern ticketing system. Each ticket is a unique code, and they are scanned on entry to match with the codes in the system.

As for resale: The attendee name is tied to the ticket in these cases, and ID is checked at the door. I guess an app could be more effective for preventing this than normal digital/paper tickets.

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