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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve's Proton (so Wine + DXVK + some other additions) revolutionized gaming on Linux. I play games both for fun and work, and for a solid 3+ years now, gaming on Linux has been an "it just works" experience for me, and should be for most games that don't use kernel-level anticheat.

I really is impressive. I wish publishers like EA and anti-cheat developers weren't so reluctant to support it. I hope Steam devices and SteamOS gain enough traction to force their hands.

Paying for a game that inserts rootkits into your kernel feels like paying money to get molested. no thanks.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#292
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that's what's keeping Microsoft from just running WINE on an MS-flavored Linux or perhaps a clean slate kernel as their next OS. I've been wondering for a while, this is by far the best explanation.

The Windows Kernel (and arguably the Windows APIs) are the only good part of Windows; they should dump everything else and run Linux above it; wait they did do that and then changed it to a boring VM.

if you rip out linux from your linux distribution you usually end up with GNU.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#293
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is interesting that these are harder to get working than games. Games are mostly just doing their own thing, only interacting with the system for input & output. MS Office is using every single corner of Windows: every feature in the XML libraries, tons of .NET type stuff, all the OLE and COM and typelib and compound storage features, tons of Explorer integrations, auto-updating stuff via Windows patching mechan…

So that's what's keeping Microsoft from just running WINE on an MS-flavored Linux or perhaps a clean slate kernel as their next OS. I've been wondering for a while, this is by far the best explanation.

> "running WINE on an MS-flavored Linux"

Like obsolete Longene project?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longene

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they have any other usecase behind Wine? My guess would be MS SQL server, but is that correct?

Starting with SQL Server 2017, native Linux support exists. Probably because of Azure.

Ironically, SQL Server AFAIK in order to run on Linux uses what basically amounts to a Microsoft reimplementation of Wine. Which always makes me wonder if they'll ever get rid of Windows altogether someday in favour of using Linux + a Win32 shim. I think there are still somewhat strong incentives nowadays to keep NT around, but I wouldn't be that surprised it this happened sometime down the line.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a superb project, and a hard thing to do. It is a pity that the apps most business people use everyday, like Word and Excel and Outlook don't work in it (Excel 2010 is the last version that has Platinum status). It is interesting that these are harder to get working than games.

Steam and CodeWeavers contribute a lot of code to the Wine project, because it underpins their business models of supporting Windows games on non-Windows platforms. Between them they make up the vast bulk of what actually gets attention and improvement in Wine, and neither one has any interest in supporting non-game applications.

> neither one has any interest in supporting non-game applications.

I don't know how much of their business it is today, but CodeWeavers spent their first decade or so supporting only non-game applications. Their product Crossover was originally Crossover Office because it was optimized around productivity applications.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outlook is now basically an Electron app, they've deprecated the old desktop Outlook in favor of a port of the web app to desktop, so it's basically just Excel remaining.

Electron apps also basically don’t work in Wine. I miss having Evernote on Linux.

Wouldnt it be possible to extract the files you need and sort of "repackage" it for linux?

I have no idea how electron apps look "internally" but it doesnt sound too bad.

Sort of like you can unzip .deb files and use them somewhere else, if what i heard was correct (never tried it myself)

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#298
I am trying to read this article on my phone without an ad blocker, and it is an impossible challenge.

Ads keeps loading and unloading, causing the page to jump around, and lose track of what I was reading.

The article is really interesting, but I am actively getting frustrated with my phone.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#299
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows Kernel (and arguably the Windows APIs) are the only good part of Windows; they should dump everything else and run Linux above it; wait they did do that and then changed it to a boring VM.

if you rip out linux from your linux distribution you usually end up with GNU.

So, that would make this GNU/Windows

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#300
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These extreme gains are the result of benching against vanilla without fsync, which is what anyone gaming on linux uses Not for anyone using a kernel without these patches. Which would be most people.

The article says fsync uses futexes which are a completely standard kernel feature.

If you read more carefully it says fsync needs some enhancements to the futex API, called futex2. The original patch that fsync needed called the syscall futex_wait_multiple. Eventually futex2 made it into the mainline kernel, but the syscall is called futex_waitv. Not sure if the wine fsync implementation was updated to support the mainline kernel futex2 implementation.
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