Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

fcc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 452 posts

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#291

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ineedaj0b wrote: post #165

If war breaks out you better bet a bunch of equipment will turn off. Numerous papers showing the ability to easily map indoors areas with WiFi (including occupancy) it’s a liability. There will be excuses “tariffs” etc but I heard a few have gotten calls from three letter agencies coyly telling you to improve your systems. It’s a chance to refresh the product line! (of course at the worst time when mem prices are ble…

You mean further war? It doesn't break out, people cause it. Then those people might, for example, lie about peace talks to make $Billions on futures trades.

They're not likely to go to war against people with long-range missiles though. Even they are not demented enough for that.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#292

Post by KoftaBob »

To clarify (since the headlines of many articles about this aren't clear about it), this states that it prohibits approval of new Models, so any models that already cleared FCC certification can still be sold in the US, even if they're made overseas.

This is for newly released models that still need to get FCC certification.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#293

Post by pixl97 »

inejge wrote: post #207
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you need is not a government mandate for infallibility, it's updates So, we don't need an electrical code to enforce correct wiring. We just need a kind soul driving by our house to notice the company who built our house wired it up wrong. Then that kind person can inform the company of the bad wiring. And if the company agrees it's their wiring at fault, we can wait 3 months for a fix. Then the next month ano…

> So, we don't need an electrical code to enforce correct wiring. For an analogy to work, its underlying elements should have a relation to the target. Your analogy is not in the same universe. For electrical work, there is a baseline of materials and practices which is known to produce acceptable results if adhered to. For software, there isn't. (Don't tell me about the Space Shuttle. Consumer software doesn't cost…

I mean this is still a semi-bs response on your case, even if you don't realize it.

Many of these devices have security flaws that are horrific and out of best practices by over a decade.

Just having something like "Have a bonded 3rd party security team review the source code and running router software" would solve around 95% of the stupid things they do.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#294

Post by dehrmann »

stacktraceyo wrote: post #247
blemasle wrote: post #200

Does it occurs to someone that in this time of encryption backdoor and such, this is also a good starting point to another mass surveillance system ? Mandate US manufacturers to embed remote access for the use of the government, then as you've made those routers the only ones authorized on the us soil (let's not be foolish about that approval process, it will be a smoke screen) you basically have a backdoor to every…

My sister in laws xfinity router / app has a new feature banner for “detecting motion in your house with WiFi for no additional cost” I took a screenshot to share if anyone is interested

This has been shared on Hacker News before: https://github.com/francescopace/espectre

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#295

Post by pixl97 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #90
gerdesj wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You ship something with no known bugs and then someone finds one." You managed to say that with a straight face! Let's keep this ... non partisan. You might recall that many vendors have decided to embed static creds in firmware and only bother patch them out when caught out. How on earth is embedded creds in any way: "no known bugs"? I think we are on the same side (absolutely) but please don't allow the buggers an…

> How on earth is embedded creds in any way: "no known bugs"? You misunderstand how organizational knowledge works. You see, it doesn't. Some embeds the credentials, someone else ships the product. The first person doesn't even necessarily still work there at that point. Remember that time NASA sent a Mars orbiter to Mars and then immediately crashed it because some of them were using pounds and the others newtons? L…

>Some embeds the credentials, someone else ships the product.

It doesn't matter. When you are building software, you build a security process, not security individuals or stuff like this happens.

>orbiter to Mars and then immediately crashed

Right, and it cost NASA 1.4 billion+ is direct losses to them. With software writers the losses occur to the end user.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#297

Post by graemep »

clcaev wrote: post #25
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #11

If we wanted secure products, we wouldn't ban devices. We'd mandate they open their firmware to audits.

It'd be great if open firmware could be commercially viable. Finding a business model is hard. The OpenWRT One [1] sponsored by the Software Conservancy [2] and manufactured by Banana Pi [3] works lovely. [1] https://openwrt.org/toh/openwrt/one [2] https://sfconservancy.org/activities/openwrt-one.html [3] https://docs.banana-pi.org/en/OpenWRT-One/BananaPi_OpenWRT-O...

Open firmware for your own devices is commercially viable. That is why hardware vendors create FOSS drivers. not all do, but it is a viable business model.

If it was required they would do it.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#298

Post by jrockway »

inejge wrote: post #207
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you need is not a government mandate for infallibility, it's updates So, we don't need an electrical code to enforce correct wiring. We just need a kind soul driving by our house to notice the company who built our house wired it up wrong. Then that kind person can inform the company of the bad wiring. And if the company agrees it's their wiring at fault, we can wait 3 months for a fix. Then the next month ano…

> So, we don't need an electrical code to enforce correct wiring. For an analogy to work, its underlying elements should have a relation to the target. Your analogy is not in the same universe. For electrical work, there is a baseline of materials and practices which is known to produce acceptable results if adhered to. For software, there isn't. (Don't tell me about the Space Shuttle. Consumer software doesn't cost…

> Don't tell me about the Space Shuttle

The Space Shuttle sure blew up a lot for something with that much process applied.

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#299

Post by pwg »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #95
wmf wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of community firmware seems like a huge cop-out that allows companies to externalize costs. And it probably won't help security because 99% of devices will never get the third-party firmware installed anyway.

If they were trying to save costs they would ship the community firmware on the device to begin with because then they wouldn't have to write and maintain their own. The community welcomes them to externalize those costs onto the people with better incentives to improve the software. What they're actually trying to do is obsolete the devices faster because then they won't add new protocols or other software-only feat…

> What they're actually trying to do is obsolete the devices faster

This is exactly why. Obsoleting older devices keeps (in their eyes) the purchase treadmill running. Making a device that could be updated forever means never making another sale to that user (unless some physical failure happens, or the user wants a second one).

Re: FCC updates covered list to include foreign-made consumer routers

#300

Post by sleepybrett »

adrianmonk wrote: post #23

This part of the press release seems pretty crucial: > Producers of consumer-grade routers that receive Conditional Approval from DoW or DHS can continue to receive FCC equipment authorizations. In other words, foreign-made consumer routers are banned by default. But if you are a manufacturer, you can apply to get unbanned ("Conditional Approval"). In the FAQ ( https://www.fcc.gov/faqs-recent-updates-fcc-covered-list…

> But if you are a manufacturer, you can apply to get unbanned ("Conditional Approval").

by giving daddy trump his taste, no doubt.

Post reply on HN