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Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

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291–300 of 413 posts

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#291
post #101

“It should never be a gallery of old boys’ networks, nor a place where titles, many of which were handed out centuries ago, hold power over the will of the people.” Nobody tell these extreme optimists about America. Replace 'titles' with 'generational wealth' and that's precisely what not just our upper house, but most of our government, is. And they're all elected!

“It should never be a gallery of old boys"

How else would you describe all the life peers who's sole qualification was to be mate with the prime minister at the time?

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#292
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d go further. To bypass the deadlocked congress, obama used executive orders in new and expansive ways. That ratcheted things up. Now trump is using executive orders even MORE expansively, to do things that are patently undemocratic and unconstitutional (federalizing who can vote, ilegal tariffs). The kludges and hacks are causing a crumbling of democracy, not just mediocre law.

>federalizing who can vote Almost every single democracy in the world requires proof that you are eligible to vote. 80% of Americans agree with the idea as well. https://wisconsinwatch.org/2026/02/voter-id-americans-suppor...

So let's have a national ID, given to all citizens.

Unfortunately the party calling most strongly for proving eligibility absolutely hates that idea.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#293
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if an American told me it was blue, I'd have no need to check, I could have confidence it is not, and that their evaluation would change to another false answer in five minutes.

Since it is blue, that tells me everything I need to know about you two.

It's white here right now :shrug:

So I guess that means you're American?

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not enshrined in some document they got together and wrote down like the US constitution It’s also very brittle and one charismatic populist away from unraveling like the American government. Too much depends on gentlemen agreements and people trusting other people to do the right thing. It works in a stable environment, but shatters the moment someone with no shame and no scruples shows up.

Being able to vote in a strong leader to fix things directly is a feature. Democracy is not always the answer and when it is it can be too slow when time matters.

For “fixing things” there are well-defined mechanisms such as state of emergency declaration of war.

Those give the leader extra powers, but do not give them carte blanche to do as they wish. Those extra powers are limited to handle specific problems.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#295
post #290
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these nobles have lost their inherent power The nobles were the land owners, the business owners, the OG entrepreneurs, they were educated, and their children would grow up to be the same. Historically the system made sense. But the last 150 years or so have basically taken their power away. A couple of years ago an estate - that included a 9 bedroom country house, plus an entire village with a population of 100 pe…

> A couple of years ago an estate - that included a 9 bedroom country house, plus an entire village with a population of 100 people, and a church - was sold by noblety near where I grew up. The price was in the low tens of millions, not that much. Entire village ? How's that work? What can the new owner do with the village? I imagine the inhabitants aren't enslaved?

Same thing landlords have done forever: Collect rents on their capital.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#296
post #290
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these nobles have lost their inherent power The nobles were the land owners, the business owners, the OG entrepreneurs, they were educated, and their children would grow up to be the same. Historically the system made sense. But the last 150 years or so have basically taken their power away. A couple of years ago an estate - that included a 9 bedroom country house, plus an entire village with a population of 100 pe…

> A couple of years ago an estate - that included a 9 bedroom country house, plus an entire village with a population of 100 people, and a church - was sold by noblety near where I grew up. The price was in the low tens of millions, not that much. Entire village ? How's that work? What can the new owner do with the village? I imagine the inhabitants aren't enslaved?

Collects ground rent. A few hundred pounds each year from everyone who owns property or land in and around the village.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#297
Genuinely regrettable. The appointed life peers system is worse than the traditional ‘hereditary sortition’ (if you will).

The former creates a class of semi-sinecures of equally questionable quality yet beholden to the political system of the moment. Life peerages become awards for donors and loyalists, a legitimized corruption. The house’s composition becomes an ever-growing competition based on unlimited partisan appointment. The house becomes less thoughtful, more unwieldy, more pointless, more expensive. It will inevitably be abolished on this path.

In contrast aristocrats are at least less likely to owe anything to a special interest, and more likely to hold firm to unpopular but perhaps higher ideals: they owe their position to no other power center, neither voters nor parties. They are also inherently invested in the nation’s long term success. It’s hardly democratic but at least it’s not a wasteful partisan circus.

My pitch would be to keep a small number of intra-peerage elected hereditary peers, keep the bishops, add various ex officio academics - but fill the majority of seats by true sortition. Every British subject is liable to be drafted, and paid, into a year or two of part-time lordship. (Though I’d grant the whole house a right to easily expel such members, should they fail to meet basic expectations.)

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#298
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why doesn't America deal with political questions using their political process? Since 2022 we do. But it’s through the political process of the States. This has made a lot of people very angry because a bunch of States have got it all wrong, and the exact way they got it wrong depends on your point of view on the subject, but no matter which side of the debate you’re on, some on your side most assuredly want to pr…

> Since 2022 we do. But it’s through the political process of the States. Which is exactly as it should be. There's nothing in the Constitution which gives the federal government power to act on this issue, therefore it should be decided on a state by state basis. Government works best when it is done based on the values and needs of the local population, not one solution for an entire heterogeneous nation.

I might take this argument seriously, if not for the fact that the party of “state’s rights” are pushing for a national ban on abortion. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-kn...

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the US constitution was written before people realized that the natural consequence of that type of constitution is a two party system. You cannot have a viable third party in the long run because it will necessarily weaken one or the other existing party and that party will then absorb it. So no you have a situation where the government can have split brain: some parts of the legislative branch c…

> The problem is that the US constitution was written before people realized that the natural consequence of that type of constitution is a two party system. The two party system is a consequence of using first past the post voting, which the US constitution doesn't even require. Use score voting instead, which can be done by ordinary legislation without any constitutional amendment, and you don't have a two party sy…

US "parties" are giant coalitions compared to the "parties" in parliamentary democracies. You're solving a problem that doesn't exist.

Change the American voting system tomorrow and legislators will belong to different nominal parties that end up forming precisely the same coalitions.

Love him or hate him, Trump is a great example of this - in 2016, Trump effectively formed a new party focused on anti-immigration and protectionism, which rapidly grew to dominate the "conservative" coalition. But those other parties, ranging from libertarians to the Chamber of Commerce (highly pro immigration and highly pro free trade) parties are still there in the coalition.

Re: Britain is ejecting hereditary nobles from Parliament after 700 years

#300
post #297

Genuinely regrettable. The appointed life peers system is worse than the traditional ‘hereditary sortition’ (if you will). The former creates a class of semi-sinecures of equally questionable quality yet beholden to the political system of the moment. Life peerages become awards for donors and loyalists, a legitimized corruption. The house’s composition becomes an ever-growing competition based on unlimited partisan…

I wonder if you might find the book “Against Political Equality: The Confucian Case” by Tongdong Bai to be interesting. It delves into exactly these issues: how to ensure that long-term interests, or the interests of future generations, are also taken into account, and not just the interests of the current electorate.
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