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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#291

Post by abustamam »

bornfreddy wrote: post #274
Forgeties79 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that…

Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.

Well, we gotta choose our battles, right? It's easy to get collective support for visible oppression and fascism. Everyone sees it on the news. It's hard to get support for "lemme use a smartphone that isn't apple or android." the average person doesn't care.

Not saying that we should just give up. But as the above poster said, it's a luxury that takes a lot of time and resources.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#292

Post by abustamam »

abighamb wrote: post #212
abustamam wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us. So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.

Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply. Send a letter like that certified. It get…

This only works if the company cares though.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#293

Post by pkphilip »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

At this point it is very difficult to develop truly open OSs for mobiles because so much of the hardware depends on undocumented binary blobs.

As I see it, the only options is to go for a drastically simpler design of the hardware - which means, we have to tone down our expectations especially when it comes to things like gaming performance, camera performance etc.

Over time even these things can be improved but it is going to take a few years.

In the meantime, I am not sure many people are willing to make those compromises to have a truly open hardware and OS though.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#294

Post by tremon »

well_ackshually wrote: post #53
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

> Google pulls the plug ? cool, you're stuck on Android 17

And you're stuck on the current hardware generation. Pretty much the only reason why Android sucks less than other mobile OSes is that hardware vendors have a pressing reason to make it work. The further the Google Android kernel diverges from its last-open version, the harder it will become to backport drivers -- and that's assuming that hardware vendors even bother to comply with the GPL when Google decides not to.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#295

Post by abustamam »

fsflover wrote: post #202
abustamam wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing! I hadn't heard of this before. IMO any competition in this space is good competition. But the reality is that it's not quite that straightforward. Linux desktop is a perfect example of that. We have tons of nerds working on the Linux ecosystem. Many on distros meant to ease transition from Mac/Windows to Linux (like Pop OS). But if I were to tell my mom to install Pop OS, she would look at me like…

> But if I were to tell my mom to install Pop OS, she would look at me like I'm crazy. What would she say if you asked her to install Windows? It doesn't matter. Normal people should either buy preinstalled or ask technical people for help. Using GNU/Linux desktop is as simple as Windows. It will be the same with phones one day, if we push it.

If I told her to install Windows, she'd at least know what to tell the technician in the event that I'm not around.

If I install Pop OS on her computer she will just tell the technician she has a laptop because she doesn't know the difference. I would hope that the technician does know the difference, and moreover, knows how to use it (which I assume someone calling themselves a technician would know how to troubleshoot basic stuff on a foreign operating system, but I've been wrong on lighter assumptions)

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#296

Post by WorldMaker »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #164
goldenarm wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can call Android user hostile. Most Banks and gov apps require play services nowadays, and Google is about to ban app installation outside of their store. Cherry on top, the play store is mostly adware junk. My parents phones are full of adware, bloatware, notification spam, it's almost worse than windows 11.

In your earlier comment you said that deGoogled Android alternatives are what's "slowing us down from leaving Android entirely" , but that is not consistent with saying that most banks and government apps require play services. If these apps cannot run on deGoogled Android, then deGoogled Android cannot be slowing us down from leaving Android because using deGoogled alternatives is as inconvenient for banking and gov…

It's not entirely a contradiction. De-Googled Android alternatives can give a perception of choice and also a perception to Banks that they support "everyone" at the same time. "We have both flavors, Vanilla (iOS) and Chocolate [Android]; you claim to want Chocolate (Android), what more do you want?"

Absolutely the current duopoly market is going to make any third-party alternative harder, but de-Googled Android seems to be a worst case because "Why not just install Google Play Services?" remains too valid a question and has too many confusing answers for both non-technical users and the business people at application providers (banks and whatnot). They will continue to have a hard time trying to figure out why you keep asking for a harder work effort for Chocolate Fudge when they already have Chocolate and why isn't that good enough.

It's easier to fix that confusion by asking for an entirely new brand/flavor, such as Strawberry, than continuing this increasingly hard war between Google's Chocolate and "free" (as in speech, but certainly not free of confusion) Chocolate Fudge.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#297

Post by Nemo_bis »

odeckmyn wrote: post #141

I wanted to add a perspective from actual daily use, because a lot of this thread sounds theoretical. I’ve been using a Murena/Fairphone running /e/OS as my primary phone for a while now, and honestly the experience has been much smoother than I expected. My banking apps work, GPS/navigation works reliably, messaging and everyday apps behave normally — I’m not constantly fighting the device or giving things up. After…

Same here! I've not had any compatibility issues when using /e/OS on a Teracube 2e. It's a smooth experience all along.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#298

Post by wao0uuno »

well_ackshually wrote: post #260
dbdr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux's default security mechanisms are simply too weak for something as potentially hostile as a mobile device. Honest question: why are mobile devices more hostile than laptops/desktops?

It is _the_ 2FA device. from SMS, to authenticators, to password managers, etc. It also has access to all of your personal information, your pictures, your contacts, your email. It actively receives notifications and messages from the outside world, from potentially any sender. It's connected through WiFi, GPS, 5G, bluetooth, UWB, every possible connection system imaginable. It can listen to your phone calls, read yo…

My Linux laptop is my 2FA device (email), it holds my passwords, and personal data like photos, contacts, email. It receives notifications and messages from outside world from potentially any sender. It connects through Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Ethernet, 5G (built in WWAN). It even has cameras, microphones and I use it for my online banking and shopping. The only reason why smartphones "need" to be ultra secure is because everyone and their mother have one and the truth is most people can hardly tell a difference between their head and their butt.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#299

Post by wao0uuno »

bornfreddy wrote: post #271
well_ackshually wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

What about Sailfish OS? I heard good things about it, but didn't dare switch... yet. Does anyone have some 1st hand experience?

I believe it's a paid OS now. Requires subscription. It was already dead before they announced it so I guess it's deader than dead now.

Edit: So apparently they're launching new hardware so maybe it's not as dead as I thought it is.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#300

Post by chrisjj »

seanhunter wrote: post #248
chrisjj wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. Thanks. Hard pass here.

Reading the links posted in a sibling thread it only does it if you have text to speech enabled and they use an anonymizing proxy so openai can't associate sessions with any particular user ie it's not perfectly anonymous and private but I don't see how you could have totally anonymous and private until you have a fully offline on-device TTS model, which the fairphone guy said they tried and didn't feel it was up to…

It is not even imperfectly private. Every word gets heard by a partner of a kakistocratic foriegn regime.

> don't see how you could have totally anonymous and private until you have a fully offline on-device TTS model

Yes, and? PCs that have have had that for decades - despite orders of magnitude less platform capability.

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