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Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

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Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#291

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

don_esteban wrote: post #152
Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One big thing your missing is that there simply is no way imaginable that a regime change can happen without the US, it's simply impossible at this stage. I can certainly understand why many if not most Iranians want the US to intervene, it's simply the only way regime change is ever going to happen.w

I have lived through regime change in Eastern Europe in 1989. A year before the change, one cannot imagine the regime change. And yet, it did happen. Bloodlessly (except Romania). Any external meddling would have probably made it much bloodier. You can be assured most Iranians do NOT want US to intervene. How many Americans want China/Russia to intervene to 'help' you get rid of Trump? Get off your high horse and use…

I'm sure there was tons of external meddling in most of eastern Europe before the many regime changes. It's very hard to draw any comparison between 80s eastern Europe and today's Iran. I don't think you really fathom how ingrained the regime really is. First of all Iran is huge and very rich in resources which makes the regime very rich and iran is technically self sufficient with food and energy. second, the regime has evolved and learned from the mistakes if other regimes making sure to have large foreign armies that don't give a shit about the Iranian people as long as the money keeps flowing, i could go on.

Also you seem to not grasp that the current regime are viewed as invaders forcing Islamic rule which I'm pretty sure is very very different from the scenarios your mentioning. And even in your scenario, if Trump really succeeds in destroying American democracy and takes everyone's guns away and closes the internet to the world and starts killing every and all opposition and terrorizes America for 40 years I'm pretty sure you'd like who ever the duck is capable of removing that to intervene. And it's not like I'm making it up, i happen to have many Iranians in my family, and many of them living in Iran still and i can assure you that the vast majority in the big cities want the US to kill off the regime. I'm sure there's some kind of rural population that loves sharia like the us has maga, but i don't think they are the majority any more.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#292

Post by don_esteban »

hunterpayne wrote: post #246
don_esteban wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived through regime change in Eastern Europe in 1989. A year before the change, one cannot imagine the regime change. And yet, it did happen. Bloodlessly (except Romania). Any external meddling would have probably made it much bloodier. You can be assured most Iranians do NOT want US to intervene. How many Americans want China/Russia to intervene to 'help' you get rid of Trump? Get off your high horse and use…

Empathy in this case apparently meaning allowing continued funding of terrorism across the ME and continued killing of any and all political opposition inside of Iran. So empathetic you are. Also, I'm totally sure your memories of what life was like when you were 5 are totally and completely accurate and captures the entirety of the geopolitical realities of the situation.

Empathy means understanding that nationalism is a powerful force and even people who are against their government would support their government against external aggressor.

Empathy means that you understand that what YOU consider terrorism might mean 'supporting self-determination of oppressed and occupied people' by somebody else. Is it so difficult to understand that ordinary Iranians do not see their government as international supporters of terrorism?

I was 19 in 1989. While I do not claim to understand geopolitical realities in their entirety, I was old enough to distinctly remember how surprising the fall of communism felt. Despite almost all people I knew being (low-level, passive) anti-communists, nobody saw it really coming until the last few months. In fact, in June 1989, I had a choice to make - either to go to a competition to West Germany, or go with friends hiking to Caucasus. The choice was obvious - go to West Germany, who knows when will be the next chance to see The West. On the other hand, I could go to Caucasus anytime.... we know how that turned out to be.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#293

Post by esafak »

martin-t wrote: post #185
stickfigure wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to only have a good track record in places with a democratic tradition. Some dictators have figured out you can just imprison and kill the opposition, and keep doing this until there is no more opposition. The Khomeini government is not going to just say "oh, you're right" and change. Neither will the Kim or Putin governments. Sometimes - sadly - violence is the least worst answer.

Don't say sadly. Don't further the indoctrination that violence is bad. It is a tool, it cannot be good or bad. States are the most prolific users of violence (even more when you also count potential/threatened, not yet materialized). Anyone who wants to claim that violence is bad has to oppose the existence of states. Violence is risky, dangerous, unpredictable, costly, etc. But those are practical and legal, not mo…

Violence absolutely is a moral concern.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#294

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dyauspitr wrote: post #244
philwelch wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works against relatively liberal governments. It didn’t work for the Tiananmen Square protestors in 1989 or for the intermittent Iranian protestors of the past couple decades because those regimes were willing to suppress those protests with overwhelming force. Fortunately, the Iranian protestors are likely to have some overwhelming force on their side soon.

I’m glad it didn’t work in 1989 because China would not have become the technical behemoth it is now if those protests had succeeded. At the same time I don’t want China to succeed and export its brand of capitofascism purely because I don’t think most other countries can find their benevolent dictator. The cognitive dissonance is wild right now.

> because China would not have become the technical behemoth it is now if those protests had succeeded

Taiwan's GDP/capita is 2.6x China's [1]. It grew faster, for longer, in large part through high technology.

Counterfactuals are always hard in history. But we literally have the nationalist government's democratic, capitalist successor kicking in way above its weight class economically and technologically. It's fair to say that if the '89 protest hadn't been massacred, the 21st century would currently be undoubtedly China's to rule. (I'd also put even odds on Taiwan having peacefully reunified by now.)

[1] https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/taiwan/china?sc...

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#295

Post by bigyabai »

hunterpayne wrote: post #234
Rapzid wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...disturbed that all my friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine... > I'm saying if you were a very vocal pro-Hamas... See how quickly things have turned from the first post manufactured to seem reasonable? No more "Curious" and "just asking questions". How many pro-Hamas friends can a person have?! I don't know a single pro-Hamas person myself. I believe you are being taken for a ride friend.

That's projection. Because it is nearly impossible in practice split support as you claim you are. HAMAS is the government in Gaza. They intercept any and all aid that isn't administered directly to Palestinians. Also the questionable version of the history of the region that you have to believe (or be completely ignorant of the history) to support the Palestinians is entirely a HAMAS narrative. If you actually knew…

> PS Most of the videos that swayed you were AI generated.

This is an absolutely insane and downright insulting claim to make about anyone. You should feel ashamed of saying something as utterly indefensible as this.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#296

Post by roysting »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #166
CommanderData wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The two nations had good relations until 1979, which is a problem for this person's world view.

I have no dog in a fight, in which you seem to really care about Iran, which is totally irrelevant, meaningless, and inconsequential to the USA or its national interests or national security; but the war machine relies on fools to fun smoothly. You do realize though that you are morally and ethically and spiritually culpable and responsible for the murder of the people that will die due to the support you provide to that end, you do realize that, right?

Maybe tell your children tonight when you get home that "I support that children like you be blown up and their families and communities be destroyed".

They may ask you "why would you support something like that, dad?" and you will only be able to say "because the colonial puppet Shah regime used to have good relations with the country founded by terrorists (the Haganah, the Irgun (ETZEL), the Stern and the LEHI) we call Israel today, you know, the ones that supported Epstein that liked raping children like you, which has manipulated me into caring more about killing other people children because I cannot think for myself or realize what awful things they have me supporting!" ... "Good night children. May there not ever be someone as awful as me in the world that decides to bomb you or your children in the future for others who have manipulated them to be awful."

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#297

Post by roysting »

I see the war propaganda slop is in full swing. Does anyone buy this nonsense anymore?

It is going to be quite interesting when the midterms put the Democrats into power. I don't expect it to change anything, because the whole system is just a fake democratic ruse, a facade, but it will surely introduce even more volatility when the blue team starts also realizing that it's just lies and the agenda of the parasitic Epstein Class continues unabated regardless of "our democracy".

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#298

Post by cardanome »

halflife wrote: post #238
cardanome wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know Venezuela, Iran, Kuba. I wonder what all these countries that western Media tells us have "oppressive regimes" have in common. Funny how they all have spoken out against the genocide in Gaza. One would think that would be the link on why they are targeted. Maybe the problem is not humanitarian but that they are opposing US imperialism? Just like all the times before. You know when Iraq was preparing weapons…

Don’t worry, Gaza also has an oppressive regime.

Yes, the oppressive regime is called Israel.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#299

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

CommanderData wrote: post #130
Betelbuddy wrote: post #30

I cant imagine the courage that is needed to take part in these protests. Most here, the most revolutionary act they will ever participate on in their life, is criticizing their boss choice of Azure as cloud provider...

[flagged]

> Iranians are related to Arabs at the end of the day

Oof, this is a catastrophic screw-up and very offensive. I think you have some serious homework to do. Iranians are very distinct from Arabs in many ways; different language, different sect of Islam (which many of the civilians - particularly the youth - privately denounce), different culture. Iranians are about as much Arab as they are British. The country has been significantly invaded by many other countries throughout the ages, but the ethnicity remains distinct.

Re: Iran students stage first large anti-government protests since deadly crackdown

#300

Post by myko »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #106
myko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same vibes as folks whining about the US being behind Euromaidan in Ukraine (the US was not). Nope, folks, people really do not like being oppressed or lied to, and will on occasion let you know that in dramatic fashion.

Nuland confessed to spending 5 billion USD on Ukraine. She was caught on camera distributing cookies and sandwiches to the rioters. She was caught on tape discussing the next Ukrainian govt. And dissing the EU. https://2009-2017.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/dec/218804.htm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbjNJbjEy04 https://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8

US being behind something (pulling the strings) is way different than what you're talking about here, really you're just proving my point.
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