Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

governance.fyi

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 488 posts

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#291

Post by yoyohello13 »

lelanthran wrote: post #203
bluGill wrote: post #22

You know who they didn't interview: those who regret saving so much. Many of those people are dead and so the regret is something we can only apply on assumption that they would. I've known a few people who unexpectedly died before they hit retirement age. I've know a few people who retired and died suddenly. The vast majority of people in a "first world" country have an expected lifespan of about 80 - but there is a…

> you can't take it with you (at least in most religions) so spend it. I don't understand this PoV at all. I can't take it with me, sure, but I'm happy anyway if I leave it behind to my kids. This PoV that you need to spend, spend, spend to get the most value for your money is very primitive - my kids will do better if I die before touching my nest egg, and if I don't at least I'll have a longer runway to live withou…

The people who are against saving are also the people who want you to spend all your money on their product. It’s just the capitalist wanting more meat for the grinder.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#292

Post by hn_acc1 »

mikestorrent wrote: post #281
Grimburger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being entirely disingenuous and is completely different to what goes on in Dubai. I have lived there and can rattle off plenty of criticisms about the country but complaining about migrant workers who clamour to work in SG is not one of them. The vast majority of Singapore migrant workforce are Malaysian citizens who live over the border in JB, you can rent a 2 bed apartment there for $300 a month and eat out…

> while commuting each day to a developed country Must be a fully automated border or something? That kind of commute would be unthinkable between e.g. Canada and the USA for most folks

Where are you located? Lots of such crossings used to happen, anyway, many years ago via Nexus or similar. Get the pass, just drive right on through over the bridge at Windsor/Detroit. Also similar things in Vancouver, I believe.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#293

Post by accurrent »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #237
mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

I worked with a guy from sg. He gave me tips for when I went to visit. He hooked me up with a family member that showed me the backend a bit. The country effectively runs on a slave class. You must drive a new vehicle under 5 years old, and the license just to buy a car was $90,000 or so. This means an entire class of people that will be taking the bus to do your laundry and clean your house for the rest of their liv…

"Indonesian and Malaysian workers". Sounds like you never actually visited construction sites. Most of the workers ive come accross are from Bangladesh, India and China. Malaysian and indonesian immigrants tend to be better off than them.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#294

Post by scottyah »

foxyv wrote: post #259
scottyah wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha and yours sounds like the lies spread by communists/unions/etc attempting to wrest power from anyone who has it now. Your view leaves a lot of gaps. My view is easily verifiable by almost anyone working (barely) and getting paid by taxes. Or second and third parties getting that sweet, easy gov $$. It's also inclusive of your billionaires- many get money from the gov or gov policies too. Your media platforms may…

Funny that you think billionaires follow laws.

You argue that they never follow any laws? You have a weird world view, sounds like a high schooler on reddit and too much THC

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#295

Post by hn_acc1 »

scottyah wrote: post #245
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously said by someone who is young and never had or knew anyone that had an expensive medical procedure like a friend who is 45 who I have known since 2003 and is a cancer survivor and now has to have open heart surgery

I don't believe your friend is most people. I have quite a few who haven't been to a doctor in decades.

So, in your 30s? My parents both had cancer in their late 50s/early 60s (including surgery / chemo) - and paid like $15 for some pain meds in Canada.

Even on a pretty good Kaiser plan, we're paying $200+ per day in the hospital, etc. On a high-deductible, more. They say they have a $1M annual limit, but that they've never enforced it. I hope we never have to find out.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#296

Post by eru »

InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

> The main goal of the government is to maximize the absolute number of people working.

Why? What? You know, they have to win elections?

They recently tightened migrant worker visas quite a lot.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#297

Post by eru »

everforward wrote: post #57
ecshafer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

To me it sounds like a tax structured in a strange way so it doesn't obviously read as a tax. It's essentially a forced loan to the government at subpar rates. The "tax" is the delta between what the government pays out for the bonds vs what a bond of equivalent risk in the free market would have paid. The magnitude of the investment also probably makes it impractical for anyone but the very wealthy to retire before…

The rates aren't all that subpar, if you adjust for risk. You can take your CPF out and invest yourself (within limits), and most people do worse.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#298

Post by hn_acc1 »

heathrow83829 wrote: post #260
aprdm wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Live frugally" , "FIRE" , "work in tech" All incompatible with 99% of the upper class, neither do they want to eat ramen to retire early. You're also one medical disaster away from being "very very wrong"

you don't need to eat ramen. there are many cost effective options out there: oatmeal, beans, rice, you could grow your own fruits and vegetables, etc. and as for the medical disaster: heart attack and stroke are actually preventable with a plant based diet (keep your LDL under 80 and you'll vastly decrease your chance of a heart attack). i know a lot of people will hate on that, but those are the facts and any evide…

How do you prevent random accidents, cancer, etc?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#299

Post by eru »

ecshafer wrote: post #20
InkCanon wrote: post #12

Singapore's economic policies are complicated and often misdirecting. I'll break down the misconceptions. The primary purpose of CPF is not a pension scheme. It is structured as a massive forced bond purchase scheme by citizens. Financially what happens is the 37% of citizen income buys a long term bond (till retirement age, on average decades) at rock bottom interest rates (it's pegged to the overnight rate or a min…

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

There's another clever bit:

In times of economic distress the government lowers the employer contribution part of CPF. That effectively gives everyone a wage cut to help employment, but without people complaining too much about it. The government is disciplined enough to raise the rate again later.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#300

Post by eru »

everforward wrote: post #199
alistairSH wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not all that different than US Social Security. SS has a much lower required contribution/tax rate, but the overall scheme seems similar (lower than market returns, etc) and naming (despite SS actually being called a tax, many residents think of it as a required personal retirement savings account).

SS is different mostly in that you’re not really loaning money to the government. The money coming in today mostly goes right back out as payments. There’s also an upper limit on SS taxable income. I forget what it is, but basically the entirety of the top quintile isn’t paying SS on their entire income. I want to say it’s like 90k, but it’s been a while since I looked.

> SS is different mostly in that you’re not really loaning money to the government. The money coming in today mostly goes right back out as payments.

That's only a difference in accounting, not in reality.

They could 'fully find' SS tomorrow, by just creating a bunch of T-bills for it.

> There’s also an upper limit on SS taxable income. I forget what it is, but basically the entirety of the top quintile isn’t paying SS on their entire income. I want to say it’s like 90k, but it’s been a while since I looked.

How's that different from CPF? See https://www.cpf.gov.sg/employer/infohub/news/cpf-related-ann...

Post reply on HN