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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#291

Post by themaninthedark »

mindslight wrote: post #191
themaninthedark wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Full stop. Laws are supposed to be crafted to be as applied by anyone, anywhere and at any time. This is why lawyers and politicians are supposed to have foresight and be prudent. You look at prior events and see them as justified due to the people involved and situations. If the US government can, for example investigate Richard Spencer or some other extremist figure based on a web post, then they can do the sam…

What exactly are you saying "full stop" to? You have said very little that addresses anything I said, except to appeal to some vague sense of "both sidesism" which is so far away from our current predicament that the only applications I see are (1) to say "I told you so", which isn't productive and widely misses the mark with me (2) normalize the current situation and/or absolve blame by shifting it onto the other si…

I am saying "No. Full stop." to the idea that we ever had a time when the government was attempting to carry out their roles in good faith.

"For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law" - Óscar Benavides, former president of Peru.

This can only be true if the law is broad and relies on "good faith". This is why laws and court ruling are often narrowly tailored, to prevent a precedent being set that will open the door for future abuse down the road.

>Investigative agencies are going to be able to investigate people. So supposing that the "US government can ... investigate Richard Spencer ... based on a web post" isn't a compelling argument unless your goal is to completely reject the concept of government. As has been often said, you can get a grand jury to indite a ham sandwich.

I suppose I could have fleshed out this argument a little further, a distillation of my point would be that "investigations" are carried out with little or flimsy evidence as a pretext to go on fishing expeditions to find something, anything to actually charge the person with.

>we need to neuter the concept of sovereign immunity I wish we could get the government to hold themselves accountable, however they would need to pass a law to override the concept and they do not seem to be in any hurry to do so.

I am not attempting to say I told you so to you, nor normalize the situation. I disagree with your assessment that there ever was a "better time" and invite not only you but everyone to stand against bad laws and practices no matter the letter after the name.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#292

Post by snake42 »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #282
dmix wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently around 300 students have been deported over pro-Palestine activism, similar to the person in the article who self-deported https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/05/visa-immigrati... > Legally, the answer is murky, one expert told The Washington Post — at least when it comes to combing through Supreme Court decisions for answers. The court has been clear that First Amendment protections from criminal o…

Why is this a bad thing? It's just like India kicking out those two tourists for political signs. I can't see any benefit at all to allowing tourist or student visas is this case to participate in "activism". https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/india-orders-british-tou...

Non-citizens have constitutional rights as well. The DHS having the ability to produce subpoenas without judicial oversight is definitely a bad thing.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#293

Post by ceejayoz »

sneak wrote: post #221
linkregister wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, law enforcement officers frequently lie about laws in order to accomplish their goals. This erodes public trust in law enforcement. As a society we should structure incentives such that agents of the government should be exposed to the externalities resulting from their actions.

> As a society we should structure incentives such that agents of the government should be exposed to the externalities resulting from their actions. That’s the most oblique way of writing “lock and load” that I’ve ever seen.

That’s one interpretation.

The same could describe “abolish qualified immunity and make law enforcement carry insurance like doctors.

Too much malpractice? Insurance goes up.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#294

Post by relaxing »

earthtograndma wrote: post #222

Why change the title? "Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist’s Bank and Credit Card Numbers" https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Agreed. The way it’s written now sound weird.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#295

Post by slg »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #211
fakedang wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and your point? ICE has already descended into detaining anyone, literally anyone, because they have quotas to meet. They seized a white Irishman last October who had a valid work permit and was just about to head to his green card interview. This is Gestapo all over again.

That guy had been overstaying a tourist visa for something like 17 years, and only started the green card process in April 2025. I don't think people who have overstayed tourist visas for 17 years should be eligible for any kind of permanent residency in the US, and would support laws making it impossible for someone in his position to get a green card or a work permit. The fact that he is a white Irishman is legally…

The first lady originally came to the US on a tourist visa before getting work as a model and eventually applying for a green card several years later. Musk came to the US on a student visa for a program that he never actually enrolled in. Even if you want to argue its "race-neutral", it's certainly not "proximity to the president neutral" so it still is very much "Gestapo-like behavior".

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#296

Post by Dylan16807 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #183
reddozen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't write rules against bad actors. There will always be some legal loophole a bad president can invent to exploit. if not for administrative warrants we would see some other creative (read: illegal) use of executive power. The only option is to not elect someone that doesn't respect rule of law. And since I know some enlightened "centrist" will play the both sides game: What's 1 thing any previous president ha…

I strongly disagree. You should always write rules under the assumption it will get in the hands of the worst people. If there is a 'become god-emperor' lever in your supposedly democratic government system then it is a shitty system.

No careful rulecrafting can survive the worst people being in charge.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#297

Post by themaninthedark »

direwolf20 wrote: post #261
themaninthedark wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that both sides have that view. Most people are in a bubble and are unaware of what their tribe is doing. I may be wrong but I think there have been Republicans who have resigned for extra-marital sex. While we are screaming about the current POTS and his relation with Jeffery, we gave Bill Clinton a platform to speak during the 2024 Convention. When I bring that up, I get told "It's important that we bea…

Who is Bill Clinton today? Some nobody with secret service protection? A bit less relevant than the current president, don't you think? I'm not convinced that people really liked Bill Clinton while he was president. Democrats seem to want the files about him to be released.

I did not realize that we invited "nobodies" to speak at the convention; I can tell how shunned he was based on the Wikipedia page:

>Third night (Wednesday, August 21: A Fight for Our Freedoms)

>The third night was emceed by actress Mindy Kaling, featuring performances by Stevie Wonder, John Legend, Sheila E and Maren Morris. Vice presidential nominee Minnesota Governor Tim Walz delivered his acceptance speech. Pete Buttigieg also spoke.

>It was confirmed that Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi was scheduled to speak. The evening was headlined by Walz and Clinton.

Headline - verb - to be engaged as a leading performer in (as in show or performance)

>Clinton left office in 2001 with the joint-highest approval rating of any U.S. president. -Also Wikipedia

Yes, at this moment the current POTUS is more relevant. At the time however, both Trump and Clinton were both "Some nobody with secret service protection" with the only difference between them being one was running for his second term and the other was not.

>Democrats seem to want the files about him to be released. Everyone wants the files released and those responsible prosecuted...until they are the ones with the files. Then there are all sorts of hints and allegations that their opposition is featured heavily but no charges brought.

It's really sick, there are real people with lives who have been ruined. Committed suicide because of what happened to them and yet all those with the power to act just talk, be it democrats or republicans.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#298

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #280
deepsun wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because we made the "overstaying" an illegal offense. But there's no reason to -- if the guy was paying taxes the whole time, and never committed a serious crime, then we should be happy to welcome such guys, ramping up our GDP. Don't forget that the paperwork costs a lot, if one has children, can get close to $10k. Look at Spain -- instead of deporting "illegals", they just made them "legals" (those without a c…

If he was paying taxes during that time period he was also committing a felony.

I like this theory of paying taxes is a felony, tell me more!!

Levity aside, working on a tourist visa is a violation but generally isn't prosecuted as a felony.

Also the grandparent post said "They seized a white Irishman last October who had a valid work permit and was just about to head to his green card interview."

If he had a valid work permit I suppose this means that he was allowed to work and pay taxes on that work, in other words - no, he was not committing a felony.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#299

Post by h4kunamata »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #187
h4kunamata wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"So I don't think I actually have a problem with businesses handing over their customer data if there is a valid warrant or subpoena. That's the system working as intended." This person right here is the problem in our society. Things never and will never get isolated to "valid warrant". Look around us, social after social media in order to "protect the kids", you must provide your personal information to them. Many…

Maybe it is to a child or average citizen, but I don't believe that "not understanding the consequences" is the case here on HN. This is just a difference in philosophy, the old "freedom vs. security" tradeoff that everyone falls down on a little differently. Giving up your data to a company (and therefore the government) in exchange for services is a trust exercise, and there are ways to avoid making it, but they ha…

>Over time, that might lead to rapid societal change, or maybe it's too late.

Seeing how things are going, not to mention Microsoft blocking European politician e-mail account by Trump orders, it is past too late.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#300

Post by bryanrasmussen »

kernal wrote: post #228
lenerdenator wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, whether or not people are able to do anything involves consequences for their actions. There's the "three" boxes of liberty that are meant to give a framework for how humans in a society are to introduce consequences to state actors who abuse rights: the soap box, the ballot box, and the jury box. So we need to start using at least those three to prevent human rights abuses with regard to search warrants.

What about the consequences for the people that let in millions of illegal aliens with criminal records that harmed and killed Americans? Should those politicians be charged as accessories?

if only they had killed the Americans without harming them, but I think it was a step too far to harm the Americans and Kill them! That's rude. How many Americans did each of these millions of Illegal Aliens Harm and Kill, I'm guessing at least two due to the plural usage and there are millions of the Illegal Aliens therefore there are at least two million.

This means that the Illegal Aliens have evidently harmed and killed at least 4 million Americans.

I'm not gonna sugar-coat it here, that is a lot of harming and killing alright.

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