Good! I'll definitely give it a try!!
we still need a good email server system in open source and simple to install / maintain ?
France's homegrown open source online office suite
291–300 of 367 posts
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Man, life must be easy when you can't read and just get to make things up online. Especially when things such as the URSSAF's simulation tool is like, freely available online: https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/salaire-brut-ne... giving you a copy of a pay slip with detailed amounts of where your money goes. Someone making 2500€ gross will take home 1885€ per month after taxes and contributions. On which yo…
> even should you want to operate in incredibly bad faith and add employer contributions,
How is that bad faith? It's basic common sense to count that together. Total cost is what matters to employers. You can't compare different countries either if you don't hacks like this that try to confuse the workers about how much they are paying.
e.g.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_...
taxes in Denmark are presumably several times higher than in France?
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, life isn't that easy then, because you failed to comprehend URSSAF's simulation tool. On a €2500 gross salary you take home €1651 (which is a very low salary in France very close to the minimum salary). But I guess you think the gross salary is what the company, by law, has to say they pay you, instead of what the total cost for the company of your salary. See, in France, even if you are getting close to the mi…
>It's a normal mistake for people that don't actually have to support the costs themselves. Once people actually start a small business or pay more attention to their own wages and how much is being taken away, they figure out how it actually works. No, thank you, I am quite well versed in the concept of superbrut, and actively pay more than a SMIC in taxes every year: you won't play that game with me. Va jouer, comm…
> They're employer _contributions_ to the system
No, they are the taxes you pay that are not shown on your payslip.
> They're the price you pay for a healthy, well educated working population
Yes, you as a worker pay it.
> back into the salary should it go away
It would be trivial for the government to make sure it does.
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
Man, life must be easy when you can't read and just get to make things up online. Especially when things such as the URSSAF's simulation tool is like, freely available online: https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/simulateurs/salaire-brut-ne... giving you a copy of a pay slip with detailed amounts of where your money goes. Someone making 2500€ gross will take home 1885€ per month after taxes and contributions. On which yo…
> even should you want to operate in incredibly bad faith and add employer contributions, How is that bad faith? It's basic common sense to count that together. Total cost is what matters to employers. You can't compare different countries either if you don't hacks like this that try to confuse the workers about how much they are paying. e.g. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Payroll_... taxes in De…
The subject is not employers, don't get sidetracked. I don't particularly give a shit about employer's costs either.
The initial claim is "82% of wages go to taxes", which is inaccurate, a lie and a bad faith argument.
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It's a normal mistake for people that don't actually have to support the costs themselves. Once people actually start a small business or pay more attention to their own wages and how much is being taken away, they figure out how it actually works. No, thank you, I am quite well versed in the concept of superbrut, and actively pay more than a SMIC in taxes every year: you won't play that game with me. Va jouer, comm…
> They're employer _contributions_ to the system No, they are the taxes you pay that are not shown on your payslip. > They're the price you pay for a healthy, well educated working population Yes, you as a worker pay it. > back into the salary should it go away It would be trivial for the government to make sure it does.
No, they're not. As a proof, should my employer stop paying them, _my wages will not rise to match what they stopped paying_.
>It would be trivial for the government to make sure it does.
Yes, and we assume a spherical cow in a vacuum, I know.
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it definitely depends on the country, there isn’t a one-size fits all answer to this for the countries in the EU. Even in this example, the French are building this in-house, but the Germans are repackaging this into their suite. And the Netherlands is on their way to do the same. So the approach would be different depending on which country you approached. My advice to you would be to follow government event…
Cool. I'm already in touch with a handful of civil servants in both Germany and the Netherlands, so I'll do as you say and look for more government led initiatives, and I'll follow up with my existing contacts. Which countries do you think are the most interested in this sort of thing so far?
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google Docs is a document editor (opening/saving Microsoft office compatible documents, with layout, etc), not a wiki/markdown editor. The La Suite Docs seems a product more similar to Atlassian Confluence.
markdown is superior in every way. whatever doesn't map 1:1, imo just trash it. if you can't do your work using markdown, you should be fired. if i'm downvoted it is by people who deserve to be fired.
How do you do nested tables in markdown?
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need to raise taxes for this, literally just stop wasting money on licensees once the open source projects are ready. It's not a "let do it in 3 months" thing, this will take at least a decade.
These projects will always need funding indefinitely if they are going to do it. People always want more and it will never be finished.
If the money is use to pay local developer, who reinvest most of it in a taxed local economy, it would need a HUGE amount of devs to match up the government's current MS license cost.
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having tax reduction as a primary goal is terrible for society, because taxes are the primary mechanism for converting money from rich people into services for everybody, particularly poor people.
> taxes are the primary mechanism for converting money from rich people into services for everybody Even California billionaires would rather leave the state than pay the 5% wealth tax. All to provide “services” that are generally superfluous or tied to corrupt kickbacks.
You seems to mistake a corruption/grift problem for a wealth redistribution scheme issue.
They do not need to be linked, they generally aren't, in the EU at least.
Re: France's homegrown open source online office suite
#300Great to see this on HN. fyi, La Suite is an umbrella project built by DINUM in France that started several years ago, mainly to enable people in the public administration to use more independent tools. It's built in-house, often on top of other open source technologies. E.g.: Matrix powers chat and LiveKit powers Visio (which was recently featured on HN as well when they announced it's rolled out to replace Zoom / T…
Do these administrations still purchase licenses for software or do they just create open source maintained by government employees? How much are they willing to pay? Because people in Europe are notoriously paid less so I am curious of the financial aspect. Also curious about the logistics of ownership and support...
I know that my city's administration has a quite active development department.
I don't know the current salary ranges,but they offer other values like vacation days, Work-Life-Balance (proper time tracking to avoid extra hours etc), part-time.offera, child care options and some other benefits, which most corporations won't give in addition to being the state, which means they won't go bankrupt, won't do reductions in force in the way companies do it, ...