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Two kinds of AI users are emerging

martinalderson.com

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Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#291

Post by [deleted] »

GrinningFool wrote: post #276
holoduke wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I let Claude configure en setup entire systems now. Requires some manual auditing and steering once in a while. But managing barebone servers without any management software has become pretty feasible and cheap. I managed to configure +50 Debian server cluster simultaneously with just ssh and Claude. Yes it's cowboy 3.0. But so are our products/sites.

When you use phrases like "managed to configure" to describe your production systems, it does not inspire confidence in long-term sustainability of those systems.

[deleted]

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#292

Post by waffletower »

When confined to a Github Copilot Business license, you do have options, as the license does provide access to frontier Anthropic and Google models in addition to its other offerings. Unfortunately it will not work directly with Claude Code without proxy server hacks, but Opencode is an option, and I am interested in learning about others (save for Aider, which I have tried and discarded).

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#293

Post by netdevphoenix »

sharperguy wrote: post #215
netdevphoenix wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second group is one that thinks talking to a chatbot will replace senior developer No one is going to replace senior developers. But senior developer pay WILL decrease relative to its historical values.

Surely making use of a new tool that makes you more productive would increase your value rather than decreasing it? Especially when, knowing the kinds of mistakes AI could make that would affect your codebase negatively in terms of maintainability, security etc would require significant experience.

> Surely making use of a new tool that makes you more productive would increase your value rather than decreasing it?

Think wider. You, sharperguy, are not and will not the only person with access to these tools. Therefore, your productivity increase will likely be the same as everyone else's. If you are as good as everyone else, why would YOU get paid more? Have you ever seen a significant number of companies outside FAANG permanently boost everyone's salary just because they they did well on a given year?

A company's goal is to the shareholders not to you. Your value exists relative to that of others.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#294

Post by netdevphoenix »

RicDan wrote: post #234
netdevphoenix wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The second group is one that thinks talking to a chatbot will replace senior developer No one is going to replace senior developers. But senior developer pay WILL decrease relative to its historical values.

Not really. If pay decreases it's because you're not required anymore or less, which is contrary to what has been shown. IF educating and enabling juniors etc. is not handled correctly, then senior pay will explode, because whilst they are much more efficient, their inherent knowledge is required to produce sustainable results.

> If pay decreases it's because you're not required anymore or less

Not necessarily, there are many factors at play here which are downplayed. The first one is education: LLMs are going to significantly improve skill training. Arguably, it is already happening. So the gap between you and a middev will get narrower. At the same time, candidates who can be as good as you will increase.

While you can argue that you possess specialised skills that not many do, you are unlikely to prove that under pressure within a couple of hours and certainly not to the level where you can have late 10s level of negotiating power imo.

At the end of the day, the market can stay irrational longer than you can continue refuse to accept a lower offer imo. I believe there will be winners. But pure technical skill isn't the moat you think it is. Not anymore.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#295

Post by KellyCriterion »

xmcqdpt2 wrote: post #220
PunchyHamster wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I use it to get some basic info about topic I know little of (as google search is getting worse by the day..). That then I check. Honestly the absolute revolution for me would be if someone managed to make LLM tell "sorry I don't know enough about the topic", one time I made a typo in a project name I wanted some info on and it outright invented commands and usages (that also were different than the project I w…

> Honestly the absolute revolution for me would be if someone managed to make LLM tell "sorry I don't know enough about the topic" https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.04664 According to that OpenAI paper, models hallucinate in part because they are optimized on benchmarks that involve guessing. If you make a model that refuses to answer when unsure, you will not get SOTA performance on existing benchmarks and everyone will di…

...or they hallicunate because of floating point issues in parallel execution environments:

https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/defeating-nondeterminism-in...

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#296

Post by Merad »

djeastm wrote: post #208
AlotOfReading wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something being simultaneously described as a "30 sheet, mind-numbingly complex Excel model" and "testable" seems somewhat unlikely, even before we get into whether Claude will be able to test such a thing before it runs into context length issues. I've seen Claude hallucinate running test suites before.

>I've seen Claude hallucinate running test suites before. This reminded of something that happened to me last year. Not Claude (I think it was GPT 4.0 maybe?), but I had it running in VS Code's Copilot and asked it to fix a bug then add a test for the case. Well, it kept failing to pass its own test, so on the third try, it sat there "thinking" for a moment, then finally spit out the command `echo "Test Passed!"`, ex…

I've been using Claude Code with Opus 4.5 a lot the last several months and while it's amazingly capable it has a huge tendency to give up on tests. It will just decide that it can commit a failing test because "fixing it has been deferred" or "it's a pre-existing problem." It also knows that it can use `HUSKY=0 git commit ...` to bypass tests that are run in commit hooks. This is all with CLAUDE.md being very specific that every commit must have passing tests, lint, etc. I eventually had to add a Claude Code pre-command hook (which it can't bypass) to block it from running git commit if it isn't following the rules.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#297

Post by charcircuit »

netdevphoenix wrote: post #217
charcircuit wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AI usage was not about learning German, but for creating an app. This would be group 2. He may use the tool he made to learn German, but using that tool isn't using AI

>using that tool isn't using AI It is though. App is using AI underneath to generate audio snippets. That's literally its purpose

Creating those snippets don't require knowing how to make a proper recording, how to edit it down, or how to direct the voice actor for the line.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#298

Post by hxugufjfjf »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #279
PunchyHamster wrote: post #142

I'd argue 2 types of users are * People using it as a tool, aware of its limitations and treating it basically as intern/boring task executor (whether its some code boilerplate, or pooping out/shortening some corporate email), or as tool to give themselves summary of topic they can then bite into deeper. * People outsourcing thinking and entire skillset to it - they usually have very little clue in the topic, are int…

> The second group is one that thinks talking to a chatbot will replace senior developer Once they realize that it doesn't replace senior but can easily replace junior, junior dev will have a bigger problem and the industry at large will have a huge problem in 8 years because the concept of "senior" would have vanished.

Why would the concept of senior disappear in 8 years? I am a senior, and work with seniors that have been seniors for 20 years. In 8 years we will still be seniors.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#299

Post by antisthenes »

eitally wrote: post #257
ddsfsdf wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you really care? Its a job.

Historically (I'm 48), professionals have cared about their jobs, generally speaking, and often do make serious attempts to logically derive sociological benefits from their personal efforts. There's been a seismic shift over the past 5-6 years, though, and this sense of care has massively eroded.

> There's been a seismic shift over the past 5-6 years

Nah. It's been at least since 2009 (GBC), if not longer.

It started happening with the advent of applicant tracking systems (making hiring a nightmare, which it still is) and the fact that most companies stopped investing into training of juniors and started focusing more on the short-term bottom line.

If the company is going to make it annoying to get hired and won't invest anything in you as a professional, there's 0 reason for loyalty besides giving your time for the paycheck. And 0 reason to go 120% so you burn out.

Re: Two kinds of AI users are emerging

#300

Post by 3D30497420 »

bwestergard wrote: post #290
idopmstuff wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me, but for writing code. I own a business, and I use Claude Code to build internal tools for myself. Don't care about code quality; never seen the code. I care if the tools do the things I want them to do, and they verifiably do.

I'd love to hear about what your tools do.

You're in luck: https://theautomatedoperator.substack.com/
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