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U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

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Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#291

Post by TacoCommander »

adev_ wrote: post #227
titzer wrote: post #163

It's harder to recruit PhD students and it's harder to fund them. NSF budget was cut 55% in the first year. The administration is doing everything possible to make it clear that no foreigners are welcome here. America is stabbing itself directly in the brain.

European researcher here. There is an other thing that should make America worry. Research grants have been cut everywhere in the US. That cuts deep and terminated many scientific collaborations between USA and the EU Horizons projects in many STEMs research fields. That created a void.... and sciences is like nature: it hates void (and the lack of money...) My perception in the domain is that the resulting void is b…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#292

Post by munificent »

john_moscow wrote: post #270
titzer wrote: post #163

It's harder to recruit PhD students and it's harder to fund them. NSF budget was cut 55% in the first year. The administration is doing everything possible to make it clear that no foreigners are welcome here. America is stabbing itself directly in the brain.

Unpopular opinion: there has been a steady decline of standards in the research community in the past decade or two. First reproducibility crisis. Then, some topics becoming political taboo where the unorthodox opinion would get you fired and canceled. The credibility of the science in the West has been falling, and the recent change of administration is predictably axing something that has a perceived strong bias in…

> back to unbiased science

Science has always struggled with biases. There was no perfect time in the past that you are imagining where that wasn't an issue.

If it seems worse today, it's largely because the systemic biases that were already there are becoming more visible, which is a sign of progress.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#293

Post by Insanity »

GuestFAUniverse wrote: post #282
detritus wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an outsider not in academia, your system has poisoned your well. We trusted in you to do the Right Thing , yet a significant sub-system of your culture has entirely successfully undermined your 'Checks and Balances' - a sub-system which has clearly been in action since at least the eighties. I don't know how you get rid of that. It's You. . I get that America/the West is far from perfect.

Are you kidding? Currently I wouldn't dare to enter the US, while I'm sure I would be relatively safe in China. And: even before Trump the TSA had elements of despotism. All the while I never heard of Europeans being treated like shit in China -- simply the better hosts!

100% this.

I keep mentioning that to people when they bring up a quite anti-China narrative (or paranoia). Most people in the western hemisphere are way more likely to be negatively impacted by the US than China.

Europeans, Canadians etc are less likely to travel to China so of course Chinese media spying would be less immediately detrimental than the spying of US companies. But even when traveling to China, it's less likely you'll be treated poorly than when traveling to the US.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#294

Post by groundzeros2015 »

jandrese wrote: post #130
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an odd description

Depends if your career depends on some facts not being true. Scientists can seem like a threat to you specifically if for example you need Climate Change to not be real. The last thing you would want is someone bringing evidence and analysis to that reality.

> for example you need Climate Change to not be real

Isn’t this the consensus of the major world powers?

Is that what these lost PhD students were studying?

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#295

Post by munificent »

Herring wrote: post #244
yodon wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a taxes issue. The assault on higher education and the sciences by this administration is inseparable from the assault on minorities and free speech. This is the authoritarian playbook 101. Mao went as far as locking up all the PhD's and sending them to work camps. Not taxes. Authoritarianism.

Yes it's a taxes issue, because that's how you pay for European-style safety nets. And again that's probably not enough either, cause Denmark/Netherlands are having issues with housing causing the far-right to surge. So you probably need Vienna-style public housing too. The US is so far from the correct solutions you're not even on the same planet.

This has nothing to do with funding.

The US is spending $892.6 billion on the military, $11.3B on ICE, and planning to spend $400 million building a fucking ballroom.

It's about authoritarianism.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#296

Post by huxley »

Hammershaft wrote: post #286
titzer wrote: post #163

It's harder to recruit PhD students and it's harder to fund them. NSF budget was cut 55% in the first year. The administration is doing everything possible to make it clear that no foreigners are welcome here. America is stabbing itself directly in the brain.

The %55 budget cut is proposed, it fortunately hasn't happened yet and it might not survive congress.

You’re not wrong that it hasn’t been passed by congress but just the proposal has already led to a massive decrease in grants. I am not as optimistic that Congress would go against admin policy

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#297

Post by Insanity »

kevinsync wrote: post #250
adev_ wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European researcher here. There is an other thing that should make America worry. Research grants have been cut everywhere in the US. That cuts deep and terminated many scientific collaborations between USA and the EU Horizons projects in many STEMs research fields. That created a void.... and sciences is like nature: it hates void (and the lack of money...) My perception in the domain is that the resulting void is b…

You being an outside observer of my country, what do you think the mid-term (next ~decade) looks like if the US is somehow able to flush the toilet and do a complete 180 from a policy and administration perspective? I imagine even if people we need are welcomed back with open arms, they're not going to want to come. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a bar where the bouncer kicked the shit out of me! Just curious, it…

As an outsider as well, I think the damage done will be hard to reverse in just a decade. You lost trust of your closest allies. Even after the current presidential term, why would we (Europeans, Canadians, ..) invest in ties with the US, when the _next next_ president can be an entire shitshow again?

The American people have shown that they are okay voting for the same nationalistic rhetoric twice. If it was just once, maybe it's a fluke. Now it seems more like a pattern hinting at the mindset of ~50% of Americans.

Also, if I want to be really pessimistic, I'd look at history, at some point Roman turned on Roman (Caesar crossing the Rubicon) after years/decades of political turmoil. The things happening today in Minnesota etc could be preludes a similar Rubicon crossing moment that will shatter the republic..

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#298

Post by dewey »

motbus3 wrote: post #253
dewey wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does AI have to do with that?

What are this user of HackerNews a left wing or right wing? What are his opinions on the current US government Please justify in topics https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dewey --- Based on the public comments available from the HackerNews user dewey, here is an overview of their opinions and perspectives related to government, politics, and the US: Political Leanings and Philosophy * Skepticism of the "Left/Right"…

Funny how the quotes it pulls for "dewey"...are for completely different users.

> They noted that "it's no different on either side with how willing they are to believe something horrendous about the other side," which they believe interferes with objective interpretation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43134319

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#299

Post by dewey »

motbus3 wrote: post #266
motbus3 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are this user of HackerNews a left wing or right wing? What are his opinions on the current US government Please justify in topics https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=dewey --- Based on the public comments available from the HackerNews user dewey, here is an overview of their opinions and perspectives related to government, politics, and the US: Political Leanings and Philosophy * Skepticism of the "Left/Right"…

Based on the information provided in the user's HackerNews profile, personal blogs (annoying.technology and blog.notmyhostna.me), and public comments, here is what can be gathered regarding these topics: Gender Context Details: The user has not explicitly stated a gender identity in their profile. However, in discussions about parenting, they have referred to themselves as a "father" (e.g., "As a father with a mortga…

> though they mention having a mortgage

> father

Maybe it's trying to bait me into correcting it, but none of these are facts.

Re: U.S. government has lost more than 10k STEM PhDs since Trump took office

#300

Post by Herring »

munificent wrote: post #295
Herring wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's a taxes issue, because that's how you pay for European-style safety nets. And again that's probably not enough either, cause Denmark/Netherlands are having issues with housing causing the far-right to surge. So you probably need Vienna-style public housing too. The US is so far from the correct solutions you're not even on the same planet.

This has nothing to do with funding. The US is spending $892.6 billion on the military, $11.3B on ICE, and planning to spend $400 million building a fucking ballroom . It's about authoritarianism.

I want you to go to your favorite frontier LLM and ask how much it would cost the US to implement Vienna-style public housing. Figure in paying off current homeowners to get their support. Restrict it to major cities where housing is the worst, just to make it easier. I bet you it's well over $10T long-term. Iraq was $2-3T long term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War
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