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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#291

Post by vasco »

appplication wrote: post #43
ericd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

Unless you live under a rock, China has more than worked around this, look at Volvo.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#292

Post by elygre »

nielsbot wrote: post #216
marcus_holmes wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time an EV driver charges their car at home, a gas station loses a customer. Eventually this compounds and gas stations start closing. That accelerates the switch to EVs because gas becomes hard to find. Which accelerates gas station closures, and so on. The point at which it becomes impractical to drive a gas-fuelled car is approaching. It will hit different countries at different times, but it's there. 10 yea…

How has this played out in Norway? (If you know) They're at 90% EV market share, right?

Norway cars on the road, December 2025:

  Elbil: 31,78 prosent
  Diesel: 31,76 prosent
  Bensin: 23,90 prosent
  Hybrid (not plug-in): 5,38 prosent
  Plug-in hybrid: 7,18 prosent

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#293

Post by hdgvhicv »

rswail wrote: post #290

The US/EU/JP manufacturers are half-pregnant, they have engine and other mechanical production plants that will become stranded assets as BEVs don't need engines, gearboxes or the other hydraulic/cooling etc infrastructure that an ICE vehicle needs. Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries. The maintenance is for brake pads/rotors, but regen braking also avoids t…

My last MOT in a petrol engine required suspension, tyres and lights. Electric wouldn’t change any of that

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#294

Post by apparent »

ako wrote: post #275
brailsafe wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? Good point, most people without garages should continue buying hybrid or ICE, because EVs aren't for them yet.

I dont have a garage, but there are at least 15+ curb side chargers in 250 meters walking distance of my house. No problem charging my Tesla.

How is the pricing? IME public charges are 2-3x as expensive as charging at home.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#296

Post by jillesvangurp »

sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

The big challenge Porsche has is getting rid of its shrinking ICE business. Europe is a bit ahead here of the US. China even further. Local Chinese luxury brands run circles around Porsche in terms of luxury, performance, etc. That's why they are struggling there. Their cars just aren't good enough.

The way forward for Porsche would be to rip the band aid off and focus on just EVs. Leave the ICE market to hedge funds. Those are good at milking dying businesses that shrink year on year. They need to do some EV only models that are heavily optimized at being good at just that. Leave the SUV crossover BS. to all the traditional brands and make a proper sports car that goes fast and far. A little autobahn monster. That would restore their reputation for delivering unapologetically high performance cars that are slightly dangerous and exciting.

ICE is dead. That's grand daddy's car at this point. That's not something somebody born this century is going to lust after and put on their wall (in poster form). And Porsche needs something that young people would want if they had the money. Their current lineup is a bit too conservative and boring. Sensible cars if they'd be half the price. But they are just too expensive and unremarkable to sell well. You can do better for the same money.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#297

Post by prmoustache »

maldev wrote: post #223
protocolture wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. I thought we were there already tbh. Chinese cars have gone from laughably bad to quality parity in less than a decade. Like even 2 years ago, I was still hearing "the paint the paint" as the last remaining issue. But I dont hear that anymore.

Have you ever ridden in a BYD? It's super loud, horrible suspension, seats are extremely uncomfy, everything is cheap with a fancy looking facade. If you need a car to go from point A - B and can't afford any luxury, it's fine. But it's a bare minimum vehicle with looks to appeal to status.

Tesla has shown that you can buy usd100K cars with dubious quality and terrible materials.

That makes it easier for brands who sell cheaper models imho. It is all about status, and right now having an EV and a fricking 17" TV on the dashboard trumps everything else.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#298

Post by quantum_magpie »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #271
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

EU automaters fail at making modern cars. They just put a bunch of screens in there with awful software. If you go all screens, just commit like Tesla. If you can't beat Tesla, just stick with minimal screens and use buttons. Somewhere between 2010 and 2020, most automakers went crazy with their designs and it went all downhill from there.

I have a 2020 Fiat 500 Abarth, and it is absolutely perfect: There is a screen (I think 7") for Android Auto/CarPlay/radio/nav, and every single other function in the car has a physical button. It is also absolutely gorgeous - pinnacle of design, IMO

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#299

Post by blub »

jacquesm wrote: post #59
appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

The (potential, no experience) quality issues are to me far outweighed by the enabling of yet another country to become a superpower which will then sooner or later result in yet another confrontation. Russia should have taught at least Europe that this sort of trade can only backfire in the longer term. Yes, I realize, China is the world's factory now, but there is no reason that can not change. I'm trying really ha…

> I'm trying really hard to buy European made products and to use European services where possible.

European companies are trying even harder to outsource to China.

In the past months I’ve seen an increase and it feels like almost everything is made in China, from books to Christmas trinkets to clothes and kitchen utensils, it’s a pain the ass to find locally produced goods.

This has a lot to do with the energy crisis triggered by decoupling from Russia, which was never properly put into context and evaluated from an economical perspective.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#300

Post by thelastgallon »

nielsbot wrote: post #216
marcus_holmes wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time an EV driver charges their car at home, a gas station loses a customer. Eventually this compounds and gas stations start closing. That accelerates the switch to EVs because gas becomes hard to find. Which accelerates gas station closures, and so on. The point at which it becomes impractical to drive a gas-fuelled car is approaching. It will hit different countries at different times, but it's there. 10 yea…

How has this played out in Norway? (If you know) They're at 90% EV market share, right?

We don't know the business model in Norway.

In US, gas stations barely make any profit on gas, its all from the convenience store, beer, water, lottery tickets, trinkets, souvenirs, etc. Costco, HEB, Walmart, etc also have gas and can run it as a loss leader for customers to compete with Amazon. As the number of gas consumers go down, gas stations everywhere will start shutting down, except the Costco/HEB/Walmart, because gas stations can't compete with those prices.

The U.S. saw over 210,000 stations in the early 1990s, dropping to around 145,000 by 2022, and potentially as low as 115,000 by 2020, according to various data points. Some estimates suggest a potential 50% reduction in traditional stations by 2050 in some regions: https://boosterusa.com/from-the-experts/the-inevitable-death...

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