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The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

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Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#291

Post by miroljub »

Zizizizz wrote: post #261
logicchains wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The guns in the US don't seem to be helping people avoid getting shot by ICE. The woman who was shot was a democrat without any guns, maybe if she'd had a gun she wouldn't have been shot.

Maybe if he didn't have a gun she wouldn't have been shot.

You just gave one more argument for having guns.

If he didn't have a gun, maybe he would be driven over by the car. Possibly a few more people too. In Europe, where guns are less prevalent, cars are the favorite weapon used by terrorists.

Luckily, he had a gun, so he was able to save himself and who knows how many more people by shooting an attacker.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#292

Post by room271 »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #230
room271 wrote: post #137

As a Brit, I find it very hard to believe that the majority of comments in this thread are not either written out of ignorance or are bots. The article is from an anarchist organisation and sensationalist. 'Precrime' in the sense described is performed routinely by all intelligence agencies and police networks in the West. Criticisms from across the pond reflect a spectacular lack of perspective. The UK is far more f…

> As a Brit, I find it very hard to believe that the majority of comments in this thread are not either written out of ignorance or are bots. I am a Brit and I object to a lot of the expansion of powers that have happened in Britain during successive governments since the "War on Terror" started which was pretty might right after 9/11. I would like to see much of this legislation repealed. However that is unlikely to…

I completely agree with criticism of expansion of government powers in some contexts but my original point was about gaining perspective and avoiding sensationalism, which I argue the article and many comments here fall into.

> Why does it matter if they are a anarchist organisation or not?

'Freedom' and government authority coexist to some extent (tax is an imposition for example, but funds a military which should ensure ongoing freedom, etc.). The article needs to be read on its own merits of course but the organisation who provide it adhere to a different value judgement about where the balance of authority and anarchy should lie in society than most would agree with. That's a helpful data point I think, even if only a small part of the story.

> I do care about the OSA, I do care about Digital ID, I do care about the expansion of government powers that I believe are unjustified.

You'll be relieved to see that the compulsory element of Digital ID (for work) has been removed at least (reported widely in press outlets yesterday evening).

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#293

Post by 9JollyOtter »

flumpcakes wrote: post #196
perching_aix wrote: post #155

I'm aware this is a cultural difference, government betrayal and overreach are hotbutton and mainstay topics in the common culture of the UK and related states (e.g. the US). It is nevertheless so weird to me that rather than trying to monitor and mitigate the abuses of legal instruments like the ones proposed, people are trying to prevent and abolish things wholesale. Everything is depicted as a slippery slope to ab…

People are seemingly very unhappy with the status quo, but also even unhappier when the Government tries to legislate around real issues. For example, people in hacker news seem to bring up grooming rape gangs specifically when talking about "Diversity" in the UK as a cudgel when the UK tries to introduce safety laws. Meanwhile some of the most prolific child abusers are being sent to jail (who happened to be young 2…

I don't understand how comments like yours fundamentally misunderstand both complaints.

Regarding the Rape gangs. The complaint is "People migrated to the country and committed heinous crimes, the local authorities tried to cover it up". Therefore they want these people removed (in some cases they have not been deported) and be more picky about who is allowed to migrate. They also want the people involved in the cover up to face some sort of punishment.

They mention it because they believe it shows the establishments hypocrisy. I don't understand why you and others don't understand this.

> The latter example is the type of thing the UK Government is trying to tackle. The abuse is rife, but people would rather talk about "Diversity" and complain about laws clearly designed to protect children.

The problem is that the "think of the children" arguments are a tried and tested way of deflecting criticism when it comes to any argument about protecting privacy.

People aren't complaining about genuine attempts to catch online predators.

They are complaining about the fact that they have to put to put in their ID to go to Pornhub to watch some chick in her early 20s diddle herself.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#294

Post by Ntrails »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #219
Ntrails wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The UK government isn't trying much policy for tackling the causes or the symptoms It doesn't know what it wants, nor how to prioritise between conflicts from vague pre (and post) election statements. It certainly doesn't want to make the hard compromises that are actually required. That said... I wouldn't want the job of trying to balance the books, fix the housing backlog, modernise our energy infrastructure, int…

I would, because despite having no idea how to accomplish any of that, I know how to delegate to people who do.

Any one of those goals is probably accomplishable merely via delegation, assuming you can pick the right people (good luck!). To achieve all of them likely isn't. It may well be we cannot have all of them at once. Note that I just grabbed a subset of things that seem relevant, certainly not all of the things the government should care about.

I'm not saying nobody could run this country more effectively. I do strongly suspect the market for that kind of skillset is out of our current price range

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#295

Post by solumunus »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #287
solumunus wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true, I’m genuinely interested in hearing the argument. I don’t understand how it could have caused any improvement.

> I don’t understand how it could have caused any improvement Which is exactly why any answer I give you would be unsatisfactory.

OK dude. You’re bothering to respond so you could just properly respond. It’s entirely possible that I have gaps in my knowledge and can hear a new argument and find it reasonable, since I’ve spent almost no time debating Brexit. Obviously I’m now just going to assume you don’t have a decent argument, which you will point at and say “see!”. It’s an easy cop out for you. What’s the point in expressing opinions if you’re going to refuse to put any weight behind them whatsoever?

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#296

Post by myrmidon »

casey2 wrote: post #279
myrmidon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brits already have more prosperity (=> median wages) even after adjusting for purchasing power. Some stagnation is to be expected from high energy prices and trade disruption (brexit). British surveillance state tolerance has always been pretty high for Europe, and is typically "sold" to the average citizen as anti-crime.

Some brits, most brits are worse off than the average Chinese in all but paper money. Restriced to Han chinese regions; PPP is on par. Overall china has much better social services and growth. Of the two I know which country I'd want to be born into in 2026

What numbers are you referring to? From what I found, median full-time salary in the UK is >40k USD/year, and in urban (!) China it's ~20k USD/y.

Purchasing power adjustment is ~1.5 (in favor of China, obviously), so this should not be close no matter how you slice it.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#297

Post by myrmidon »

9JollyOtter wrote: post #290
myrmidon wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brits already have more prosperity (=> median wages) even after adjusting for purchasing power. Some stagnation is to be expected from high energy prices and trade disruption (brexit). British surveillance state tolerance has always been pretty high for Europe, and is typically "sold" to the average citizen as anti-crime.

It depends where you are in the UK. Almost all the wealth is in the South East of England. Outside of that the country is much poorer. I drive from Manchester to Dorset once a month to visit my parents. There is a clear line where I notice all the street signs, the service stations, roads etc are better kept. Cars and houses are in better condition/news.

The same is true for China, though; all the wealth is at the urbanized coast, with a somewhat poor and underdeveloped hinterland.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#298

Post by simmerup »

ddq wrote: post #256
simmerup wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we know they support the people that do

Then why did you say 80-year old women were "the type to sledgehammer police officers though apparently" and then immediate shift the goalposts? Further, the statement "The only people being arrested in the Uk are for supporting a proscribed group" is patently false; the UK government has not limited its arrests for social media posts to those expressing support for Hamas. You are not engaging in good faith discussio…

You know Palestine Action are a proscribed group right?

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#299

Post by 9JollyOtter »

myrmidon wrote: post #297
9JollyOtter wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends where you are in the UK. Almost all the wealth is in the South East of England. Outside of that the country is much poorer. I drive from Manchester to Dorset once a month to visit my parents. There is a clear line where I notice all the street signs, the service stations, roads etc are better kept. Cars and houses are in better condition/news.

The same is true for China, though; all the wealth is at the urbanized coast, with a somewhat poor and underdeveloped hinterland.

It is going to exist pretty much anywhere. Wealth is going to be concentrated in some areas and not others. So comparing the Median income of the entire country is not representative of the whole.

e.g. Jobs in London (even remote ones) will pay twice as much as jobs in the North West of England.

Re: The UK is shaping a future of precrime and dissent management (2025)

#300

Post by ChrisRR »

azangru wrote: post #48

> The focus of policing is also shifting. As street crime continues to fall, more attention is directed toward protest, dissent, and the perceived risk of unrest. Does street crime in fact continue to fall? I keep hearing about bicycles getting stolen, or how in London, mobile phones get snatched. It was also common to hear how police fails to prosecute various kinds of crime (usually mentioned in contrast to how the…

A single data point does not show a trend
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