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ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

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Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#291

Post by carlosjobim »

wiseowise wrote: post #35
lotsofpulp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is someone seeking for a way to deal with an inherited or environmentally caused illness giving up control of their body?

Don’t forget that majority of the commenters on this platform live in a country that views suffering in pain from incurable disease as a “god intended way” (and a horse dose of morphine). Take it with a grain of salt.

What specific country are you talking about? I've had people close to me suffer health problems for years waiting for treatment because they worshipped the government healthcare system and government doctors so much that they refused to seek any help outside it.

Problem is, small and solvable health problems become incurable if you don't fix them in time.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#292

Post by enceladus06 »

DudeOpotomus wrote: post #6

[flagged]

The LLM still provide value. They are much quicker than seeing a doctor, and with Deep Research for ChatGPT and whatever Gemini google search is calling it now you can actually get to see the sources from the information that it is looking at.

Parsing 100 different scientific articles or even google search results is not going to be possible before I get bored and move on. This is the value of LLM.

Even if the LLM data is used in training or sold off one way to protect oneself, is to add in knowingly incorrect data to the chat. You know it is incorrect, the LLM will believe it. Then the narrative is substantially changed.

Or wait like 6mo and the opensource Chinese models [Kimi/Qwen/Friends] will have caught up to Claude and Gemini IMO. Then just run these models quantized locally on Apple Silicon or GPU.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#293

Post by carlosjobim »

DetectDefect wrote: post #84
simianwords wrote: post #83

[flagged]

> It is inconceivable for this demographic to think of a product that can enrich both the corporation and the users. Would you care to provide an example of such a product, to dissuade this perceived demographic cohort? I am not so certain your creative name calling will yield much results, however.

> Would you care to provide an example of such a product

Go to a pharmacy and look at the shelves and you will find such products. All made by companies looking for a profit.

Or just look everywhere around you, and you will see things made by corporation for their profit, which you have purchased to enrich your own life.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#294

Post by bossyTeacher »

carlosjobim wrote: post #245
bossyTeacher wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>my ability to understand health problems How do you know that this understanding is correct? To me, epistemologically, this is not too different from gaining your health knowledge from a homeopath or gaining your physics knowledge from a Flat Earther. You are in no position to discern the validity of your "knowledge".

> You are in no position to discern the validity of your "knowledge". He is the only one who is in that position, because he is the only person who is inside his body. He is physically and mentally a hundred percent in the position to discern the validity of the advice.

> He is the only one who is in that position, because he is the only person who is inside his body

Tell that to everyone who has died due to following quack medicine advice.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#295

Post by mrcincinnatus »

trollbridge wrote: post #18
bwb wrote: post #12

ChatGPT has made a material difference in my ability to understand health problems, test results, and to communicate with doctors effectively. My wife and I were talking last night about how helpful it was in 2025. I hope that it continues to be good at this. I want regulators to keep an eye on this and make smart laws. I don't want it to go away, as its value is massive in my life. (One example, if you are curious:…

This sounds like excellent evidentiary material for a future insurer or government health provider to decide you're uninsurable, not eligible for a job, and so on. And the great thing about it is that you already signed all your rights away for them to do this exact thing , when we could have had an open world with open models run locally instead where you got to keep your private health information private.

Precisely right. Related. https://www.socialcooling.com/

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#296

Post by bossyTeacher »

bwb wrote: post #284
bossyTeacher wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>my ability to understand health problems How do you know that this understanding is correct? To me, epistemologically, this is not too different from gaining your health knowledge from a homeopath or gaining your physics knowledge from a Flat Earther. You are in no position to discern the validity of your "knowledge".

It isn't a 0 or a 1; it is a spectrum. Doctors don't understand everything, either, which is the scary thing we don't like to realize. What it specifically helps me to understand are things like: probable outcomes, symptoms in greater detail, as well as how they manifest in patient populations, explains it as if I was a 10/15/20 year old in detail to help me understand the basics of what might be going on, similar th…

>It isn't a 0 or a 1; it is a spectrum. Doctors don't understand everything, either,

It's not equivalent. Doctors are aware of the limits of their knowledge and the error bars around their knowledge. You and an LLM don't. There is no comparison here. It's like trying to compare a random person lost in a person versus someone lost in a forest who is used to it.

Even with an LLM, you still have to be able to ask the right questions and be able to push back where necessary. I don't think most people are able to do this especially when some of the responses which might be right are counterintuitive to them and some of the dodgy responses might seem more aligned to their worldviews.

If you want to learn, it is fine (knowing that there is a context there you likely are missing) but performing actions based on knowledge you don't have context of is dangerous. It applies to vibe coding as much as it does to your personal health. This is how you end up injecting yourself with blood from younger people believing it will make you immortal.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#297

Post by sarchertech »

ipaddr wrote: post #79
lionkor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are medical professionals not usually held accountable, globally speaking?

Lawsuits against medical professionals are difficult in many cases impossible for the average person to win. They are held less accountable compared to other professions.

> They are held less accountable compared to other professions.

I have no idea what other professions you’re talking about. Doctors are the only professionals where it’s common for multi million dollar judgements to be awarded against individuals. In may cases, judgements larger than their malpractice insurance limits.

Take a doctor working alone overnight in the ER. They are responsible for every single thing that happens. One of the 4 NPs that they are supposed to have time to supervise while they are stuck sedating a kid for ortho to work on makes a mistake—the doctor is the one that’s getting sued. A nurse misinterprets an order and gives too much of something, doctor is getting sued. Doesn’t matter if it’s their fault or not. Literally ever single one of the dozens of patients that comes in with a runny nose or a tummy ache, or a headache is their responsibility and could cost them their house. And there are far too many patients for them to actually supervise fully. They have to trust and delegate, but in practice they are still 100% on the hook for mistakes. For accepting this responsibility they might get $10 per NP patient that they supervise.

Healthcare professionals also occasionally face criminal prosecution for mistakes at a level that wouldn’t even be me a career in other professions.

> Lawsuits against medical professionals are difficult in many cases impossible for the average person to win

Malpractice attorneys operate on contingency, so they’re more accessible to the average person than most kinds of attorneys. It’s one of the many reasons healthcare is so expensive in the US.

It’s harder for a doctor to get fired for saying showing up late to work than it is for a cook at McDonald’s I guess, but compared to other professionals? I’ve seen software engineers regularly skip through companies leaving disasters in their wake for their entire careers. MBAs regularly destroy companies, lawyers and finance bros get away with murder, and police officers literally get away with murder.

The only profession that faces anywhere near the accountability that doctors do that I can think of might be civil engineers.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#298

Post by bwb »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #296
bwb wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a 0 or a 1; it is a spectrum. Doctors don't understand everything, either, which is the scary thing we don't like to realize. What it specifically helps me to understand are things like: probable outcomes, symptoms in greater detail, as well as how they manifest in patient populations, explains it as if I was a 10/15/20 year old in detail to help me understand the basics of what might be going on, similar th…

>It isn't a 0 or a 1; it is a spectrum. Doctors don't understand everything, either, It's not equivalent. Doctors are aware of the limits of their knowledge and the error bars around their knowledge. You and an LLM don't. There is no comparison here. It's like trying to compare a random person lost in a person versus someone lost in a forest who is used to it. Even with an LLM, you still have to be able to ask the ri…

100% agree with you. That is why I said a spectrum :)

The point is, it is an amazing tool that has made a big impact on my family. But ya, that is why my post talked about the importance of critical thinking, checking with experts, etc. It isn't a button click solution.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#299

Post by basket_horse »

well_ackshually wrote: post #289
basket_horse wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re over thinking it. Like all top tech companies, they just want the best engineers.

Ah yes, Palantir is "just" a tech company. Notwithstanding the fact that tech companies hire dogshit employees all the time and the vast majority of employees of any company of size 1000+ are average at best, Palantir happens to be rating so high on the scale of evil that I'd pop champagne if it got nuked tomorrow. If any company would do it, it would be Palantir.

That’s the point. If any company would do it, it’s Palantir, and they don’t. In fact it’s quite the opposite. Their negative public image makes hiring more difficult causing them to accept what they can get.

Also, I’m not saying they have the best talent, just that they want the best talent.

Re: ChatGPT Health is a marketplace, guess who is the product?

#300

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Terr_ wrote: post #239
alpinisme wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some respects, the ideal world is one in which everyone’s premiums are tied to a free and easy Apple Watch-like device that silently tracks exercise, blood sugar at a frequency that can tell when you ate a big dessert, air quality (and the presence of smoke or pollution), blood alcohol content, whether you are in speeding cars, whether you are participating in dangerous sports, etc. Such a system would directly co…

There's a similar phenomenon when people grouse about paying taxes for "roads I don't even use." Even if we assume zero indirect benefits, the billing infrastructure necessary to truly achieve that goal would create a creepy panopticon of constant surveillance. This is difficult to convey to certain brands of self-styled libertarians.

> creepy panopticon of constant surveillance

Which we have anyway. We might as well get some benefits from it.

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