I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13 • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#291

Post by fullstop » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 12:37 PM UTC

happymellon wrote: post #286

fullstop wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in it to support the company and their goals, but the experience was a little souring.

Aren't System76 laptops just rebranded Cleo, which is why there is no design consistency? They don't manufacture batteries and never have, I've always had mixed feelings when it comes to "supporting their goals". I appreciate their work to get Linux working on those models, but they can't provide long term hardware support.

They are, but a selling point at the time was that you could buy replacement parts from System76.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#292

Post by bayindirh » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 1:19 PM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #218

bayindirh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm buying a premium machine, I don't expect and want to mod it with $3 tape and ¢50 markers. It's like buying a premium car and installing an aftermarket instrument cluster because the OEM one is too bright at its lowest setting.

I agree, but reality is often different, even for cars. Sometimes because of incompetence, sometimes because of dark patterns. Many newer cars do have space for putting your phone somewhere on the middle console, but it's arranged in ways to make it impossible to place your phone in a way that would make it usable for navigation. Why? Because they desparately want you to use their own navigation setup (which probably…

If we exclude a Dacia which lacked a screen and a radio, all the cars I have rented in the last three years had Android Auto and Apple CarPlay built in. Even though my phone was tucked there somewhere, I always used my phone's maps and other features while driving via the USB cable or wirelessly.

And, that wasn't half bad even. Did phone calls, used maps, listened to some music. Got the job done pretty smoothly.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#293

Post by happymellon » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 1:43 PM UTC

dontlaugh wrote: post #289

happymellon wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They hide # behind additional key combination, and expose §. It's awful.

# is in its proper place, if you grew up programming on a US-derived keyboard. Some of the other changes aren’t great, I agree.

No its not.

Shift+3 does not give you #.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#294

Post by hypercube33 » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 2:51 PM UTC

qchris wrote: post #98

hombre_fatal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the Framework starts so far behind in performance and battery efficiency of a cheaper Macbook that you aren’t saving money on perf upgrades. You really do have to buy it for the idea rather than the reality.

I don't love this comparison, because I have to use Linux, not Mac. It's not really optional for me, and Asahi simply isn't far enough along to fill the gap. As a result, the question is more Framework vs. Dell or Lenovo, and that creates a much smaller gap in capability in the 13" form factor.

Side complaint: I'm irked that the smaller surface laptop didn't continue with custom AMD chips since they were getting quite powerful in the last one.

Other complaint is that because of comments here I went looking at framework but it doesn't show what GPU comes with AMD processors so I'm going to have to not look at this on mobile.

I have a Thinkpad, Asus and surface 13" amd and none have fully scratched the itch for my go to machine. Asus is powerful enough but the build quality and durability are pure garbage.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#295

Post by impure-aqua » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 4:29 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #290

impure-aqua wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all sorts of other things that don't show up on a spec sheet so easily that Framework isn't competitive on. It has a diving board trackpad, significantly worse speakers, no zonal dimming on the display (comparing to MacBook Pro, which higher end specs of the Framework cost as much as), general poor body rigidity, an aggressive fan curve that ramps up audibly on short loads (the Air doesn't even have a fan a…

Trackpad isn’t as good, true. But it’s not a bad trackpad, either, and I would counter that other operating systems that aren’t macOS support external normal mice a lot better. On macOS I needed to install a separate paid program (Smooze Pro) to make the scroll wheel of an external mouse normal for gaming or other purposes. I would be very interested to try the haptic trackpad on the Lenovo ThinkPad X9 15 Aura Editio…

I also am a programmer, and I care about all of these things on my laptop. I used my trackpad to click reply on this webpage, that's not a rare thing!

If you ever have a meeting where multiple people huddle around a laptop, that uses speakers, webcam, and microphone, and the MacBook does so much better in that scenario. We have interrupted meetings to swap from a Framework 16 (old CTO's laptop) to my MacBook Pro because participants simply couldn't hear those of us slightly further away from the laptop!

Zonal dimming is an advantage whenever you have black areas on the screen, and good fan tuning is an advantage if you want to compile some changes during a meeting without thinking "this task will turn my laptop into a jet engine and distract everyone else".

If you don't care about these things, then you can find way cheaper devices than the Framework that are cost competitive on core specs. Let's get some Framework pricing as a datum, Framework will sell me the AI 350 and 2.8K display for $1939CAD, it has no RAM, no SSD, no charger, no ports... if I add 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, charger, and 2xUSB-C, 1xHDMI, 1xUSB-A, we're looking at $2403CAD.

If I don't care about the less measurable components, why would I not buy something like this $400USD (~$550CAD) laptop [1] another poster in this thread found which also has an AI 350, 16GB RAM, and a 512GB SSD? I can buy four of these laptops for the price of the Framework and still have some cash left over! If I need more RAM I'm sure I can find a similarly cheapo laptop with a SODIMM by actually googling myself.

I think the reality is both you and I do care about these other parts, just maybe with a different minimum acceptable quality. But even inside PC land Framework is not competitive. Higher-end X1 Carbons have haptic trackpads at the same price point as Framework is offering diving boards. Across the market there are OLEDs for less money than Framework is charging for LCDs.

Personally, I don't care about trackpad alone so much, merely that the pointing device situation be acceptable. When programming, I type a lot and then do a few small mouse actions (e.g. expand some segment on a docs webpage, or mouse around some GUI to test the feature I have been building out). With a haptic trackpad, I can move my thumb from the spacebar to the top of the trackpad which is just below it and do my mouse actions without significant hand movement. This is not possible with a diving board design as the top of the trackpad is not clickable. A pointing stick is absolutely an acceptable solution to this problem, but Framework also does not offer those, again despite price-competitive offerings from, say, Lenovo offering it.

Let's briefly look at Lenovo's website. I can spec out a ThinkPad P14s Gen 6 here in Canada from Lenovo's website [2] with a 120Hz OLED screen, trackpoint, Ryzen AI 350, 1x16GB SODIMM and 512GB NVMe for $1529CAD, that's a fully working computer for less than the barebones Framework, with a better display and pointing device situation! I can use the empty second SODIMM port with a single 48GB stick and get 64GB, and stick the NVMe in an external enclosure to use as an external SSD, and deck it out with whatever market-rate drive and RAM I can get.

The Framework is broadly uncompetitive even if you won't consider a MacBook.

[1] https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-r...

[2] https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/configurator/cto/index.html?bun...

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#296

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 4:53 PM UTC

yaro330 wrote: post #252

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m own a FW13 and I have bought ~4 for employees. I doubt I will order more. We’ve had small and large issues. My Linux machine will drain the battery completely if you don’t perform a full shutdown, and even then the quiescent drain is too high and I can expect it to be dead in a week. The dream of repairability is great, but the reality just isn’t there. That said, I was able to replace a damaged screen with no ef…

Apparently Surface laptops come with stellar repair guides now, and they improved repairability greatly. MS doing something nice for once?

Counterpoint… the battery is superglued to the chassis and to replace for my model was STEP 53, and that was to scrape the old battery off and glue the new one in, then 53 steps backwards to re-assemble.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#297

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 4:55 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #258

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The motherboards are often 80%+ the cost of an entire new machine though.

Probably because they include the CPU if I am not mistaken, but probably makes sense and is worth the hassle if your concern is your CPU / main hardware is falling behind.

Does that make sense? Because for another $200-300, you get a new chassis, keyboard, monitor, touchpad, webcam, antennas, and whatever else.

It’s kind of a bad deal.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#298

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 5:57 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #290

impure-aqua wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all sorts of other things that don't show up on a spec sheet so easily that Framework isn't competitive on. It has a diving board trackpad, significantly worse speakers, no zonal dimming on the display (comparing to MacBook Pro, which higher end specs of the Framework cost as much as), general poor body rigidity, an aggressive fan curve that ramps up audibly on short loads (the Air doesn't even have a fan a…

Trackpad isn’t as good, true. But it’s not a bad trackpad, either, and I would counter that other operating systems that aren’t macOS support external normal mice a lot better. On macOS I needed to install a separate paid program (Smooze Pro) to make the scroll wheel of an external mouse normal for gaming or other purposes. I would be very interested to try the haptic trackpad on the Lenovo ThinkPad X9 15 Aura Editio…

> Also remember that this is a laptop for programming…how often am I using my mouse?

All the time?

Some of us have embraced IDE and graphical tooling in desktop systems since the 1990, after computers with desktop environments became affordable and we weren't stuck with text only interfaces.

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#299

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 6:32 PM UTC

maelito wrote: post #232

astra1701 wrote: post #49

The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilo…

Just broke my control key. They're sending me a new keyboard (well the whole cover as chznging the keyboard is hard) as part of the EU garantee. Awesome. My last laptop had the same problem but the repair employee broke the whole computer when he came to replace the keyboard. Dell then did not want to accept their fault. Vive le framework.

What? How does that even survive legal scrutiny? They broke your laptop

Re: I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

#300

Post by 999900000999 » Sat, Dec 27, 2025, 8:23 PM UTC

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #280

999900000999 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comparing Framework to itself. https://slickdeals.net/f/18984394-hp-omnibook-5-16-fhd-ips-r... HP OmniBook 5 16 with an Ryzen 350 for 439$. This is actually less than the framework mainboard for a full laptop with a better processor. This actually

But the rest of that machine is hot garbage.

I don't see any clear issues with it.

I brought my friend an HP because their PC wasn't booting for someone reason and it's more than enough.

If we really want to compare, I bet a refurbished Thinkpad would probably be about the same price as the typical Framework mainboard of similar performance.

If you like framework, thats great, but it's not really about saving money.