Earlier quoted context omitted.
Should indie games have a maximum budget?
Yes. If you get 120M+ in funding, you no longer qualify to be called indie.
So what would the limit be in your mind? Does it include marketing?
Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
291–300 of 421 posts
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe, but that is a different issue. The use of generative AI for art is being rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers - who mostly publish their source with licenses that allow this. The quality suffers in both cases and I would personally criticise generative AI in source code as well, but the ethical argument is only against profiting from artists…
> rightfully criticised because it steals from artists. Generative AI for source code learns from developers The double standard here is too much. Notice how one is stealing while the other is learning from? How are diffusion models not "learning from all the previous art"? It's literally the same concept. The art generated is not a 1-1 copy in any way.
> The art generated is not a 1-1 copy in any way.
Yeah right. AI art models can and have been used to basically copy any artist’s style many ways that make the original actual artist’s hard work and effort in honing their craft irrelevant.
Who profits? Some tech company.
Who loses? The artists who now have to compete with an impossibly cheap copy of their own work.
This is theft at a massive scale. We are forcing countless artists whose work was stolen from them to compete with a model trained on their art without their consent and are paying them NOTHING for it. Just because it is impressive doesn’t make it ok.
Shame on any tech person who is okay with this.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you think they use? I work in mobile games and practically everyone is using either VSCode or some Jetbrains IDE. A few use Visual Studio but it has AI autocomplete too.
Oh, mobile. I was thinking of the AAA desktop titles. I'm too poor to play free to play games so the mobile titles are kinda out of my mind. Of course you'd use Jetbrains for Android...
Unity is by far the biggest platform for mobile games and its C# all the way, both for Android and iOS.
You need to crack open XCode only for very specific debugging tasks
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not trying to defend "The Indie Game Awards", which I also have never heard of, but The Game Awards are universally acknowledged to be a joke, and always have been. By runtime, it's 80% soulless, samey trailers for AAA games, 10% Imagine Dragons, 5% rooting for that coked-up clarinet player on the edge of the orchestra, and 5% Jeff Keighley rapid-firing off the winners of made-up award categories in under five se…
There was no judgement in his comment. He just pointed out (correctly) that the game awards that were being spoken of everywhere for the last few weeks were not the one related to this article. I on the other hand will add a judgement to this discussion: if you consider the game awards a joke, which is the by far most watched event in gaming, eclipsing (by viewer count) other entertainment events in sports such as th…
Re: Judgement:
I think it's exactly their popularity that lead people to call the big awards shows "a joke." Pretty common with stuff like the Emmys and Grammys.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#295The game won GOTY on its merits. Then the AI disclosure came out and it got stripped. If AI use produces obviously inferior work, how did it win in the first place? Seems like the objection is to the process, not the result. Doubly so if the usage was de minimis. I think it's the artists, not the tools, that make the art. Overuse of anything is gauche; but I am confident that beautiful things can be made with almost…
> If AI use produces obviously inferior work, how did it win in the first place? they uses some AI placeholders during development as it can majorly speed up/unblock the dev loop while not really having any ethical issues (as you still hire artists to produce all the final assets) and in some corner case they forgot to replace the place holder also some of the tooling they might have used might technically count as g…
> AI placeholders during development as it can majorly speed up/unblock
Zero-effort placeholders have existed for decades without GenAI, and were better at the job. The ideal placeholder gives an idea of what needs to go there, while also being obvious that it needs to be replaced. This [1] is an example of an ideal placeholder, and it was made without GenAI. It's bad, and that's good!
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1l9j2kz/new_amazi...
A GenAI placeholder fails at both halves of what a placeholder needs to do. There's no benefit for a placeholder to be good enough to fly under the radar unless you want it to be able to sneak through.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem I have with the whole "licensing standards" thing is that, for everyday activities for most of the population, it's not realistic to regulate to the point that there are really substantial barriers to entry to the degree there are for flying in general. And experience probably counts for more than making people shell out a couple thousand more for courses.
The usual argument in favor of stricter licensing is coupled with improvement in public transit.
Which is really going to help me living 50 miles outside a major city. (Which is considered urban according to the US Census.)
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#297Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#298I would consider myself pretty embedded in the gaming space, and I hadn't heard of the "Indie Game Awards" before yesterday. Last year's award show has <100k views on youtube, and the first article mentioning this (insider-gaming.com's) is written by one of the judges involved. I'll leave it up to the reader to judge how much of this is genuine and how much is jumping the twitter bandwagon to boost the award show's p…
> I would consider myself pretty embedded in the gaming space, and I hadn't heard of the "Indie Game Awards" before yesterday Very curious to hear what channels you follow and how often per week. My RSS feed was spammed by it this and previous years
Mostly daily browsing of twitter and reddit, r/livestreamfail + various discord communities. Note that i have heard lots about The Game Awards, but this is a different event.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, even though I'm not in favour of gen ai. It was a terrible mistake letting placeholder assets get out in the final release, but it shouldn't actually count as shipping AI-generated content in your product.
> representatives of Sandfall Interactive agreed that no gen AI was used in the development of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Even if all the AI-generated content had been replaced before release, this would still be a lie.
That's a dumb requirement for something purporting to be a general indie game award.
They should rename to the Digital Amish game awards or something.
Re: Clair Obscur having its Indie Game Game Of The Year award stripped due to AI use
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s incredibly harsh. A blanket ban on AI generated assets is dumb as hell. Generating placeholder assets is completely acceptable.
I don't find it that surprising. The creatives that are against generative AI aren't against it only because it produces slop. They are against it because it uses past human creative labor, without permission or compensation, to generate profit for the companies building the models which they do not redistribute to the authors of that creative labor. They are also against it due to environmental impact. In that view,…
Except it uses existing art transformatively, which means that even under our absurd, dystopian IP laws, it’s not exploitation. There isn’t a single artist out there who wouldn’t be running afoul of copyright law if that wasn’t the case.
It’s been insane to me to watch the “creative class”, long styled as the renegade and anti-authoritarian heart of society, transform into hardline IP law cheerleaders overnight as soon as generative law burst onto the scene.
And the environmental concerns are equally disingenuous, particularly coming from the video game industry. Please explain to me how running a bunch of GPUs in a data center to serve peoples LLM requests is significantly more wasteful than distributing those GPUs among the population and running people’s video games?
At the end of the day, the only coherent criticism of AI is that it stands to eliminate the livelihood of a large number of people, which is perfectly valid concern. But that’s not a flaw of AI, it’s a flaw of the IP laws and capitalistic system we have created. That is what needs addressing. Trying to uphold that system by stifling AI as a technology is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.