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How getting richer made teenagers less free

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Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#291

Post by neckardt »

nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #249
cons0le wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible for people to get how bad it is until they see it. My old house had a grocery store 1.2 miles away. To walk there, you have to cross a 6 lane highway. Entire neighborhoods here have no sidewalks. And the roads are so torn up they're unusable. My friend had to get rid of his road bike and get a fat tire suspension bike. None of the intersections have any lights or visibility. And you can't run off the…

You are right for most people. I am not (and cannot get) fit enough to walk and ride everywhere. I walk as much as I can because cars suck but I appreciate the car. You got me thinking about ebikes. Speed is also a thing though. Getting somewhere in 2 minutes instead of 10 is very convenient.

The best cities have laws that allow for light motorized vehicles in the bike lanes. Not just ebikes, but also mobility scooters, microcars, electric wheelchairs, and adaptive bicycles.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#292

Post by em-bee »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #288
em-bee wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are not married, are you? that's not how this works. while they certainly need to talk, and not just once, but continuously, you don't have the authority to change your partners behavior. you need to discuss your feelings about this matter and come to a consensus about the activities and the goals for your child. it won't be easy. if i were in this position, i can't imagine what i would do. i feel even stronger t…

Don't forget that there are many indians lurking hackernews. With their particular views about women.

just because those views exist, doesn't mean those views are good: https://madrascourier.com/opinion/its-time-to-educate-indian...

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#294

Post by amenhotep »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #186
throwaway732255 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interestingly, I've heard from parents that many feel like they're both suffocating and feeling inadequate When my spouse and I were dating, we made fun of those “overly involved parents” who tried to live vicariously through their kids and over-scheduled them. Since having kids, my spouse has (over a one year period) put our 5 year old in: T-ball, swimming, dance, theater, Sunday school, church, soccer, gymnastics…

Yeah, they definitely need time to look out a window and imagine. But I think there is serious value in organized activities. From Junior high through high school I had a rule for mine to do one thing with school, and one thing outside of school. I would have supported more than those 2 things, but I'm so glad I didn't have to. I'm thinking about enforcing the same rule in college, with a caveat that Gym and Girlfrie…

Enforcing? He'd presumably be an adult, and the entire point of university is to get out from under your parents' wings. This sounds like a horrible idea.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#295

Post by throw0101a »

antonymoose wrote: post #143
fallinditch wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend is one of those 'overly involved' parents with his daughter: tennis lessons and competitions, sailing lessons and competitions, skiing lessons and competitions. He sacrificed a huge amount of time to give his daughter every opportunity. I asked him one time "do you think she might end up hating you for making her do all these activities?" He thought it would be ok. He said "it will open doors for her. She's…

Isn’t that a bit like raising your kid with the intent of playing in the NBA though? I understand that it worked well for your friend and I am not knocking athletics, my own daughter is doing gymnastics, but that seems like either a post-hoc justification on the part of your friend or a strategy with a low rate of success such that it seems a bit odd to go for as a parent. Personally, I’ve seen far more of my helicop…

> Isn’t that a bit like raising your kid with the intent of playing in the NBA though?

No: getting to the NBA is very difficult, but you don't have to be that good. You 'just' have to be good enough to play at the college/university level with a scholarship. One doesn't necessarily have to 'go pro'.

I knew someone who got a scholarship to a business/finance program for cross-country running: he wasn't planning on being a pro runner. And doing these activities in high school is probably a good thing, from a social and health perspective, regardless of if it leads anywhere else.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#296

Post by shlant »

dlisboa wrote: post #95
TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

It's a cultural shift. Your peers are now way more aware of child abuse, kidnappings, murders, than your parents were. Not that yours were necessarily bad parents for that time but there is way more information today of the issues with the world. I certainly wouldn't let my kid walk home alone in the woods at night: are we really sure this degree of freedom is so developmentally important to be worth the risk? I'd al…

> Your peers are now way more aware of child abuse, kidnappings, murders, than your parents were

does being more aware of these things mean you necessarily make better decisions overall for you children? Are humans good at translating news they see into accurate risk assessments?

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#297

Post by screye »

dlisboa wrote: post #95
TrackerFF wrote: post #15

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s, and came from a rural place with a lot of poverty and at best working class people. We'd be outside all day long - being inside was considered a privilege. Weekdays and weekends. Decades later, most of my peers have middle-class jobs. Their kids are barely outside. Their parents are involved with them from morning to evening, or chauffeuring them between sports and other extracurr…

It's a cultural shift. Your peers are now way more aware of child abuse, kidnappings, murders, than your parents were. Not that yours were necessarily bad parents for that time but there is way more information today of the issues with the world. I certainly wouldn't let my kid walk home alone in the woods at night: are we really sure this degree of freedom is so developmentally important to be worth the risk? I'd al…

Not sure if 'aware' is the right word. More like anxious.

Kidnappings and murders are exceedingly rare, even more so by strangers. Abuse primarily occurs at home, with acquaintances and at places of education. Moving a child from free form play to structured classes is moving risk around, but isn't reducing it.

When there is a big community of kids, there's safety in numbers. Highly supervised play reduces the kids involved, and takes away safety in numbers in exchange for constant vigilance.

An aware person would see the numbers and Calibrate risk accordingly. There is risk involved in everything and helicopter parenting has done little to reduce it.

It's an anxiety spiral.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#298

Post by morellt »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #215
HexPhantom wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What looks like fear of responsibility can also be fear of doing something wrong in a world where mistakes are heavily punished and rarely forgiven

Anxiety is the only real emotion and it is the best one because it truly protects you from evil.

I wouldn't conflate "best" with "most important". Personally I find the sappy emotions like love, happiness, and contentedness to be the best ones, generated by the best parts of life. However, I would absolutely say it is the most important feeling from a self-preservation standpoint.

There is also something to be said about today's unchecked, underutilized anxiety that one feels when sitting doing absolutely nothing. There has been an unending discussion about the causes of this, but I tend to align with the belief that since our current world doesn't provide many dangers for us to genuinely cause anxiety, our brain freaks out and finds less dire avenues to trigger it.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#299

Post by watwut »

cpursley wrote: post #105
dlisboa wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cultural shift. Your peers are now way more aware of child abuse, kidnappings, murders, than your parents were. Not that yours were necessarily bad parents for that time but there is way more information today of the issues with the world. I certainly wouldn't let my kid walk home alone in the woods at night: are we really sure this degree of freedom is so developmentally important to be worth the risk? I'd al…

This idea that parents who let their kids play without 3 layers of bubble wrap and parental hovercraft mode don’t also talk with their kids and aren’t present is not just insulting, it’s far from true. Over coddling causes more problems than it prevents, it’s especially obvious when you compare the maturity levels, mental health situation and general early adulthood outcomes for non-Anglo kids in other developed nati…

I like how contemporary parents are either overly involved or lazy having forgotten how to parent ... whatever is needed to blame them for the moment.

Re: How getting richer made teenagers less free

#300

Post by watwut »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #146
ileonichwiesz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it's not even worth it... none of those kids will be a professional sportis/musician, it's just wasted time... I can’t agree there. The point of extracurricular activities is to teach the kid new things and expand their horizons, not the (admittedly highly unlikely) possibility that those activities will become their career. Most children won’t become historians either, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t teach…

Sure, but in addition to everything they learn at school (and get tired of), do they really need 3x2 hours of violin, 3x2 hours of tennis and 3x2 hours of spanish weekly? + weekend tennis matches. (my coworkers kid taken as example, 12yo) I like my job too, i learn a lot of it, but that's basically half-time of a second job (if you include commute) for a 12yo kid... that's just too much, both for the kids and their p…

Kids oftentimes want to do that.

And with foreign languages, notably english, relying on school means they likely wont learn it.

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