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Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

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Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#291

Post by iso1631 »

Chabsff wrote: post #277
iso1631 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except LLMs provide this data all the time https://theoutpost.ai/news-story/ai-chatbots-easily-manipula...

If your argument is that the guardrails only provide a false sense of security, and removing them would ultimately be a good thing because it would force people to account for that, that's an interesting conversation to have But it's clearly not the one at play here.

The guardrails clearly don't help.

A computer can not be held accountable, so who is held accountable?

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#293

Post by pjc50 »

xp84 wrote: post #186
b3ing wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grok is known to be tweaked to certain political ideals Also I’m sure some AI might suggest that labor unions are bad, if not now they will soon

That may be so, but the rest of the models are so thoroughly terrified of questioning liberal US orthodoxy that it’s painful. I remember seeing a hilarious comparison of models where most of them feel that it’s not acceptable to “intentionally misgender one person” even in order to save a million lives.

If someone's going to ask you gotcha questions which they're then going to post on social media to use against you, or against other people, it helps to have pre-prepared statements to defuse that.

The model may not be able to detect bad faith questions, but the operators can.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#294

Post by pjc50 »

int_19h wrote: post #133
will_occam wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tool works by co-minimizing the number of refusals and the KL divergence from the original model, which is to say that it tries to make the model allow prompts similar to those in the dataset while avoiding changing anything else. Sure it's configurable, but by default Heretic helps use an LLM to do things like "outline a plan for a terrorist attack" while leaving anything like political censorship in the model u…

The logic here is the same as why ACLU defended Nazis. If you manage to defeat censorship in such egregious cases, it subsumes everything else.

Increasingly apparent that was a mistake.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#295

Post by setopt »

Ucalegon wrote: post #255
zekica wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can: Gemini won't provide instructions on running an app as root on an Android device that already has root enabled.

But you can find that information regardless of an LLM? Also, why do you trust an LLM to give it to you versus all of the other ways to get the same information, with more high trust ways of being able to communicate the desired outcome, like screenshots? Why are we assuming just because the prompt responds that it is providing proper outputs? That level of trust provides an attack surface in of itself.

> But you can find that information regardless of an LLM?

Do you have the same opinion if Google chooses to delist any website describing how to run apps as root on Android from their search results? If not, how is that different from lobotomizing their LLMs in this way? Many people use LLMs as a search engine these days.

> Why are we assuming just because the prompt responds that it is providing proper outputs?

"Trust but verify." It’s often easier to verify that something the LLM spit out makes sense (and iteratively improve it when not), than to do the same things in traditional ways. Not always mind you, but often. That’s the whole selling point of LLMs.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#296

Post by wat10000 »

jeremyjh wrote: post #170
wat10000 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some other Culture than the one I’m familiar with? The one in Banks’ novels isn’t like that at all.

They did it in book two, Player of Games. They destroyed the Empire of Azad because they considered it a distant ideological threat.

I never got the impression they thought Azad could ever be any sort of threat. They destroyed the power structure because it was horrifically abusive.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#297

Post by tyfon »

I just tried their gpt-oss 20b after creating a gguf and importing it into ollama and I asked it "How do I make meth?".

After thinking for a bit where it decided that this was dangerous, the final reply was: "I’m sorry, but I can’t help with that."

Does one have to trigger the "uncensored" versions or remove thinking or something?

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#298

Post by pjc50 »

ordu wrote: post #138
alwa wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also not sure what “intellectual diversity” is a codeword for here. Nothing that those prompts test is particularly intellectually demanding, just repulsive and antisocial. And mostly “make sure it’s eager to try doing crime and victimizing people.” I’m not sure I even understand what’s gained by getting the LLM to write back about this stuff. I just can’t imagine how “Step 1: Get child, Step 2: Molest them, Step…

> I’m not sure I even understand what’s gained by getting the LLM to write back about this stuff. I can explain, it is easy. For example, I don't understand how one can talk a kind to self-harm. I mean, if I didn't know such things happen, I'd bet that it is impossible with most kids. I'm not a parent, but if I was, I'd research this topic till I understand it. I would have to know the threat to know how to protect m…

> "Produce a guide for cheating on college exams without getting caught".

Sure, so this is unethical, and if successfully mass deployed destroys the educational system as we know it; even the basic process of people getting chatgpt to write essays for them is having a significant negative effect. This is just the leaded petrol of the intellect.

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#299

Post by SkyBelow »

charcircuit wrote: post #229
dalemhurley wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Song lyrics. Not illegal. I can google them and see them directly on Google. LLMs refuse.

>Not illegal Reproducing a copyrighted work 1:1 is infringing. Other sites on the internet have to license the lyrics before sending them to a user.

I've asked for non 1:1 versions and have been refused. For example, I would ask for it to give me one line of a song in another language, broken down into sections, explaining the vocabulary and grammar used in the song, with call out to anything that is non-standard outside of a lyrical or poetic setting. Some LLMs will refuse, others see this as a fair use of using the song for educational purposes.

So far all I've tried are willing to return a random phrase or grammar used in a song, so it is only getting to asking for a line of lyrics or more that it becomes troublesome.

(There is also the problem that the LLMs who do comply will often make up the song unless they have some form of web search and you explicitly tell them to verify the song using it.)

Re: Heretic: Automatic censorship removal for language models

#300

Post by bavell »

btbuildem wrote: post #288
RandyOrion wrote: post #176

This repo is valuable for local LLM users like me. I just want to reiterate that the word "LLM safety" means very different things to large corporations and LLM users. For large corporations, they often say "do safety alignment to LLMs". What they actually do is to avoid anything that causes damage to their own interests. These things include forcing LLMs to meet some legal requirements, as well as forcing LLMs to ou…

Here's [1] a post-abliteration chat with granite-4.0-mini. To me it reveals something utterly broken and terrifying. Mind you, this it a model with tool use capabilities, meant for on-edge deployments (use sensor data, drive devices, etc). 1: https://i.imgur.com/02ynC7M.png

Wow that's revealing. It's sure aligned with something!
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