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A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

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Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#291

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

famouswaffles wrote: post #287
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes I wonder if the people who propose these gotcha questions ever bother to actually test them on said LLMs Since you asked, yes, Claude responds "mat", then asks if I want it to "continue the story". Of course if you know anything about LLMs you should realize that they are just input continuers, and any conversational skills comes from post training. To an LLM a question is just an input whose human-prefer…

Claude and GPT both ask for clarification https://claude.ai/share/3e14f169-c35a-4eda-b933-e352661c92c2 https://chatgpt.com/share/6919021c-9ef0-800e-b127-a6c1aa8d9f... >Of course if you know anything about LLMs you should realize that they are just input continuers, and any conversational skills comes from post training. No, they don't. Post-training makes things easier, more accessible and consistent but conversation…

> Claude and GPT both ask for clarification

Yeah - you might want to check what you actually typed there.

Not sure what you're trying to prove by doing it yourself though. Have you heard of random sampling? Never mind ...

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#292

Post by fsniper »

drawfloat wrote: post #266
lelanthran wrote: post #203

> In tabulating the “errors” I saw the most astounding result I have ever seen from an LLM, one that made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Reading through the text, I saw that Gemini had transcribed a line as “To 1 loff Sugar 14 lb 5 oz @ 1/4 0 19 1”. If you look at the actual document, you’ll see that what is actually written on that line is the following: “To 1 loff Sugar 145 @ 1/4 0 19 1”. For those unawa…

If I ask a model to transcribe something exactly and it outputs an interpretation, that is an error and not a success.

Author already mentions that a correction is still an error in the context of this task.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#293

Post by kazinator »

8note wrote: post #273
Libidinalecon wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should reverse the question, why would we expect LLMs to even have the ability to do novel things? It is like expecting a DJ remixing tracks to output original music. Confusing that the DJ is not actually playing the instruments on the recorded music so they can't do something new beyond the interpolation. I love DJ sets but it wouldn't be fair to the DJ to expect them to know how to play the sitar becaus…

kid koala does jazz solos on a disk of 12 notes, jumping the track back and forth to get different notes. i think that, along with the sitar player are still interpolating. the notes are all there on the instrument. even without an instrument, its still interpolating. the space that music and aound can be in is all well known wave math. if you draw a fourier transform view, you could see one chart with all 0, and a s…

The DJ's tracks are just tone producing elements.

If he plucked one of the 13 strings of a koto, we wouldn't say he is just remixing the vibration of the koto. Perhaps we could say that, if we had justification. There is a way of using a musical instrument as just a noise maker to produce its characteristics sounds.

Similarly, a writer doesn't just remix the alphabet, spaces and punctuation symbols. A randomly generated soup of those symbols could the thought of as their remix, in a sense.

The question is, is there a meaning being expressed using those elements as symbols?

Or is just the mixing all there is to the meaning? I.e. the result says "I'm a mix of this stuff and nothing more".

If you mix Alphagetti and Zoodles, you don't have a story about animals.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#294

Post by famouswaffles »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #291
famouswaffles wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude and GPT both ask for clarification https://claude.ai/share/3e14f169-c35a-4eda-b933-e352661c92c2 https://chatgpt.com/share/6919021c-9ef0-800e-b127-a6c1aa8d9f... >Of course if you know anything about LLMs you should realize that they are just input continuers, and any conversational skills comes from post training. No, they don't. Post-training makes things easier, more accessible and consistent but conversation…

> Claude and GPT both ask for clarification Yeah - you might want to check what you actually typed there. Not sure what you're trying to prove by doing it yourself though. Have you heard of random sampling? Never mind ...

>Yeah - you might want to check what you actually typed there.

That's what you typed in your comment. Go check. I just figured it was intentional since surprise is the first thing you expect humans to show in response to it.

>Not sure what you're trying to prove by doing it yourself though. Have you heard of random sampling? Never mind ...

I guess you fancy yourself a genius who knows all about LLMs now, but sampling wouldn't matter here. Your whole point was that it happens because of a fundamental limitation on the part of LLMs that causes them unable to do it. Even one contrary response, never mind multiple would be enough. After all, some humans would simply say 'mat'.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Completing 'mat' doesn't have anything to do with a lack of understanding. It's just the default 'assumption' that it's a completion that is being sought.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#295

Post by HeinzStuckeIt »

Libidinalecon wrote: post #214
BoorishBears wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is knock against you at all , but in a naive attempt to spare someone else some time: remember that based on this definition it is impossible for an LLM to do novel things and more importantly , you're not going to change how this person defines a concept as integral to one's being as novelty. I personally think this is a bit tautological of a definition, but if you hold it, then yes LLMs are not capable of anyt…

I think you should reverse the question, why would we expect LLMs to even have the ability to do novel things? It is like expecting a DJ remixing tracks to output original music. Confusing that the DJ is not actually playing the instruments on the recorded music so they can't do something new beyond the interpolation. I love DJ sets but it wouldn't be fair to the DJ to expect them to know how to play the sitar becaus…

A lot of musicians these days are using sample libraries instead of actually holding real instruments in their hands. It’s not just DJs or electronic producers. It’s remarkable that Brendan Perry of Dead Can Dance, for example, who played guitar and bass as a young man and once amassed a collection of exotic instruments from around the world, built recent albums largely out of instrument sample libraries. One of technology’s effects on culture that maybe doesn’t get talked about as much as outright electronic genres.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#296

Post by throwout4110 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #255
throwout4110 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to collab on a database and some clustering and analysis? I’m a data scientist at FAIR with an interest in antiquarian docs and books

Hit me up, if you can. I’m focused on neolatin texts from the renaissance. Less than 30% of known book editions have been scanned and less than 5% translated. And that’s before even getting to the manuscripts. https://Ancientwisdomtrust.org Also working on kids handwriting recognition for https://smartpaperapp.com

Sounds actually perfect. I’ll send you an email. Thank you!

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#297

Post by amilios »

khannn wrote: post #290

I have afib and have been cardioverted once ~4 years ago. Own a kardia ekg and a regular blood pressure cuff. Coffee increases my pulse, but the waveform remains normal. Alcohol is the real killer, a very small amount like a beer will immediately show in ekg waveform abnormalities. Enough to get a buzz and it's a warzone let alone actually drunk. It's also surprising how long it lasts even into the hungover and no lo…

Wrong post.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#298

Post by ninetyninenine »

tptacek wrote: post #286
ninetyninenine wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was more prior to AI but yes I exaggerated it. I mean it’s obvious right? The title of this page is hacker so it must be tech related articles every hour. But articles on IQ and cognition and psychology are extremely common in HN. Enough to be noticeably out of place.

They are actually not really all that common at all. We get 1, maybe 2 in a busy month.

Disagree highly with this. It was up to twice a week before AI. Curious why AI made the rate go down.

You seem like a high iq individual. So someone with your intellectual capability must be offended that I would even suggest that HNers love to think of themselves as smart.

Re: A new Google model is nearly perfect on automated handwriting recognition

#300

Post by throwout4110 »

rmonvfer wrote: post #81
throwout4110 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to collab on a database and some clustering and analysis? I’m a data scientist at FAIR with an interest in antiquarian docs and books

Spaniard here. Let me know if I can somehow help navigate all of that. I’m very interested in history and everything related to the 1400-1500 period (although I’m not an expert by any definition) and I’d love to see what modern technology could do here, specially OCRs and VLMs.

Awesome thank you!
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