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Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

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Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#291

Post by hombre_fatal »

kroaton wrote: post #241
jjcm wrote: post #227

IMO the biggest barrier to linux is disappearing - the requirement to know how to use the command line. You still have to use it, but you don't have to know how to use it anymore with the introduction of LLMs. I also have switched my primary desktop from Windows to Linux, and now when I have an issue, I just ask an LLM. I play pretty fast and loose with just chucking commands it gives me into the command line. I'm pr…

Arch + Claude Code has been working amazingly well for me. I tried switching from Windows in the past and it never clicked. Now it's been great.

NixOS has been even better since it sees my whole system config and doesn’t need to derive the state from queries. I started with hello world and iterated into my perfect desktop env over a week.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#292

Post by whstl »

adastra22 wrote: post #203
hamdingers wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm explaining how most games work in practice. You're right a game could be made that works that way. I'm not aware of one, but I don't have exhaustive knowledge and it wouldn't surprise me if examples exist, but that was not the question.

I would not at all be surprised that there are examples out there, although I don't know of them. Tying the game state to the render loop is decision made very deep in the game engine, so you'd have to do extensive modifications to change any of the mainstream engines to do something else. Not worth the effort. But a greenfield code shouldn't be perpetuating this mistake.

That's a super interesting discussion

On most modern engines there is already a fixed-step that runs at a fixed speed to make physics calculation deterministic, so this independence is possible.

However, while it is technically possible to run the state updates at a higher frequency, this isn't done in practice because the rendering part wouldn't be able to consume that extra precision anyway.

That's mainly because the game state kinda needs to remain locked while: 1) Rendering a frame to avoid visual artifacts (eg: the character and its weapon are rendered at different places because the weapon started rendering after a state change), or even crashes (due to reading partially modified data); 2) while fixed step physics updates are being applied and 3) if there's any kind of work in different threads (common in high FPS games).

You could technically copy the game-state functional-style when it needs to be used, but the benefits would be minimal: input/state changes are extremely fast compared to anything else. Doing this "too early" can even cause input lag. So the simple solution is just to do state change it at the beginning of the while loop, at the last possible moment before this data is processed.

Source: worked professionally with games in a past life and been in a lot of those discussions!

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#294

Post by the__alchemist »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #288
SteveNuts wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing windows has focused on has been dark patterns to force users towards cloud and figuring out more and more ways to collect data to sell ads. I’m not naive, I know a ton of huge enterprises still run huge fleets of windows “servers” but I still find it hilarious that a supposedly serious server OS would default to showing you the weather and ads in the start menu.

> The only thing windows has focused on has been dark patterns to force users towards cloud and figuring out more and more ways to collect data to sell ads. And backwards compatibility. They're really good at it. And I'd say that's the reason Windows is still dominant. There's this unfathomably long tail of niche software that people need or want to run.

Yep! I can compile a program on Windows and expect it to work on any Windows OS from the past ~15 years that has the same CPU architecture. Linux? Each binary is more provincial. I want to try some of the tricks like MUSL though; haven't explored the space beyond default compiler options.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#295

Post by viktorcode »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #278
viktorcode wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems this kind of comments will keep coming no matter what. Nevertheless, here's some points on the matter: Apple was the company that boosted OpenGL popularity by using it as the graphics API for OS X. In Apple platforms world there's only one graphics API that is guaranteed to work across their hardware, so it was a big deal. However, they could not keep up with OpenGL updates, as they overlapped poorly with their…

Games on Mac are a multifaceted problem, but IMO the main issue stems from Apple treating games like they do apps. They expect developers to continue to support them, to update them as APIs get depreciated. Apple can spend all the resources they want, but they'll never be able to convince enough developers to foster a gaming ecosystem that could ever be taken seriously when there's other platforms that have 20+ years…

Two more points to that:

First, due to substantial differences in graphics hardware, that is tiled-based deferred rendering for Apple Silicon and immediate mode rendering for NVIDIA and AMD the software simulation or translation layer will never be as good as DXVK/VKD3D, which essentially do rendering on exactly same GPUs. In case of using TBDR the pipeline must be rewritten to get the benefits. Simply put, for Apple hardware every Windows game wrapped in a translation layer will be significantly worse off than a native port. That’s why it’s important for Apple to push for that.

Second, Apple is the owner of the biggest game storefront in terms of revenue. They don’t have to ask for game developers to come, they are already here. The market we are talking about is AAA games market. And this market is characterised by dedicated hardware: consoles and gaming PC. So I think this is where lies the actual problem: Apple doesn’t make dedicated hardware for games.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#296

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

Novosell wrote: post #264
shevy-java wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was younger I also was like that. As I got older, my interests in games decreased. That and also because I am too dumb to make wine work with games nowadays; it was easier in the 32bit era. :\ But the real problem is lack of time. There are so many things to do and so little time. Today's games are also not as interesting IMO. Most of them are just "who has the better 3D engine".

Games these days, just as before, are fantastic. Outer Wilds, Disco Elysium, Expedition 33, Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring(Nightreign), etc. And I've not even listed quite a few of my favorites cause they're not popular enough for most people to have heard of them. Weird to say you don't game these days but also make blanket statements about games these days :p

Outer Wilds… man, what an experience.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#297

Post by bigstrat2003 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #84
eek2121 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched a couple months ago. This is my third time trying to switch to desktop Linux, and things are very different this time. I installed CachyOS and all of my hardware just worked, including NVIDIA/Wayland. No real bugs beyond incorrect monitor positioning, and some tinkering needed for Diablo 4/Battle.net. The Diablo 4 issue is present on Windows as well, and ironically, there isn't a fix on Windows for those a…

> No real bugs beyond incorrect monitor positioning Windows really needs to catch up with this. Multiple monitors have been a thing in Linux pretty much since the beginning of X. Why can't I plug a Windows laptop into a docking station, and expect the screens to come up in the same order they were in last time? Why is it so hard?

I do that all the time. So it seems to be something hardware-specific, not that it makes it less annoying.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#299

Post by ThatPlayer »

broodbucket wrote: post #236
lwansbrough wrote: post #185

Biggest hurdle for me to do this is just multiplayer games. I wish Linux would offer a solution to that. No idea what it would look like though. Contrary to most Linux advocates I’m a big believer in giving studios the tools they need to defeat cheaters and I don’t care much about system integrity if it means fairer games.

The anticheats themselves typically do support Linux, it's the devs that don't choose to use them

Those are generally not the same anticheats with the same levels of functionality. As an analogy it's like saying Excel supports iPad. Or a gaming example that used to be way more common: Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 is supported on Game Boy Advance.

It's a game and it is Tony Hawk, but it's not really comparable as Tony Hawk on PS1.

Re: Linux gamers on Steam cross over the 3% mark

#300

Post by lunar_rover »

jjcm wrote: post #231

As strange as it sounds, I think Valve is extremely well-positioned to ship what becomes one of the first true Linux desktop experiences. There's a huge demand for gaming x ai development, both of which have similar hardware requirements, and Valve is already polishing their linux experience with Steam Deck. If they launch their own desktop with a properly managed OS and hardware, I think it would legitimately become…

The problem is still the desktop itself. Basically none of the existing Linux desktop components are mature, either design or technical wise and more often than not, both.

Deck works because most games are self contained, allowing them to have a default game mode that bypasses the desktop entirely.

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