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Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

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Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#291

Post by abenga »

realitysballs wrote: post #222
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

This implies cloud infrastructure experts are cheaper than bare metal Linux/networking/etc experts. Probably in most smaller organizations, you have the people writing the code manage the infra, so it's an "invisible cost", but ime, it's easy to outgrow this and need someone to keep cloud costs in check within a couple of years, assuming you are growing as fast as an average start-up.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#292

Post by rcxdude »

ecshafer wrote: post #283
kitd wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are usually the biggest cost in any organisation. If you can run all your systems without the sysadmins & netadmins required to keep it all upright (especially at expensive times like weekends or run up to Black Friday/Xmas), you can save yourself a lot more than the extra it'll cost to get a cloud provider to do it all for you.

Every large organization that is all in on cloud I have worked at has several teams doing cloud work exclusively (CICD, Devops, SRE, etc), but every individual team is spending significant amounts of their time doing cloud development on top of that work.

This. There's a lot of talk of 'oh you will spend so much time managing your own hardware' when I've found in practice it's much less time than wrangling the cloud infrastructure. (Especially since the alternatives are usually still a hosting provider that mean you don't have to physically touch the hardware at all, though frankly that's often also an overblown amount of time. The building/internet/cooling is what costs money but there's already a wide array of co-location companies set up to provide exactly that)

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#293

Post by inapis »

chubot wrote: post #264
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Does anyone have experience with say Linode and Digital Ocean performance versus AWS and GCE? They still use VMs, but as far as I know they have simple reserved instances, not “cloud”-like weather? Is the performance better and more predictable on large VPSes? (edit: I guess a big difference is that VPS can have local NVMe that is persistent, whrereas EC2 local disk is ephemeral? )

No. DO can be equally noisy but I've always tried their regular instances and not their premium AMD/Intel ones.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#294

Post by ambicapter »

Aissen wrote: post #180
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

I'm at a startup and I don't have access to the terraform repo :( and console is locked down ofc.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#295

Post by aunty_helen »

Terretta wrote: post #230
1a527dd5 wrote: post #201

Love it! We are unfortunately moving away from self-hosted bare metal. I disagree with the transition to AWS. But it's been made several global layers above me. It's funny our previous AWS spend was $800 per month and has been for almost 6 years. We've just migrated some of our things to AWS and the spend is around $4,500 per month. I've been told the company doesn't care until our monthly is in excessive of five fig…

There are many other costs besides that AWS bill. Naming two it's hard to put a number on, but get discussed at board room or senior exec level: - client confidence - labor pool

And to add to that second one, ability to bring in a third party contractor to reduce headcount when needed.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#296

Post by wiether »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #197
Thicken2320 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the S3 API is like chopping onions, the more you do it, the faster you start crying.

Haha! My only “yes, but…” is that this: > 50k API calls per second (on S3 that is $20-$250 _per second_ on API calls!). kind of smells like abuse of S3. Without knowing the use case, maybe a different AWS service is a better answer? Not advocating for AWS, just saying that maybe this is the wrong comparison. Though I do want to learn about Hetzner.

They conveniently provide no detail about the usecase, so it's hard to tell

But, yeah, there's certainly a solution to provide better performances for cheaper, using other settings/services on AWS

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#297

Post by dlisboa »

belter wrote: post #204
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

> If you don't want to do this yourself, then we'll do it for you for half the price of AWS (and we'll be your DevOps team too You might not realize but you are actually increasing the business case for AWS :-) Also those hardware savings will be eaten away by two days of your hourly bill. I like to look at my project costs across all verticals...

> Also those hardware savings will be eaten away by two days of your hourly bill

Doubt it. I've personally seen AWS bills in the tens of thousands, he's probably not that costly for a day.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#298

Post by pton_xd »

chubot wrote: post #264
adamcharnock wrote: post #150

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Does anyone have experience with say Linode and Digital Ocean performance versus AWS and GCE? They still use VMs, but as far as I know they have simple reserved instances, not “cloud”-like weather? Is the performance better and more predictable on large VPSes? (edit: I guess a big difference is that VPS can have local NVMe that is persistent, whrereas EC2 local disk is ephemeral? )

I can't speak to Linode but in my experience the Digital Ocean VM performance is quite bad compared to bare metal offerings like Hetzner, OVH, etc. It's basically comparable to AWS, only a bit cheaper.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#299

Post by oneplane »

Gee, another "we did not need cloud, so by not using cloud, we stopped spending on something we did not need"-story. Duh. The real story is why someone who doesn't need cloud services starts using them anyway.

If you need it, use it, if you don't need it, don't use it. It's not the big revelation people seem to think it is.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#300

Post by rcxdude »

Aissen wrote: post #180
rightbyte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is old is new again. My employer is so conservative and slow that they are forerunning this Local Cloud Edge Our Basement thing by just not doing anything.

As an infrastructure engineer (amongst other things), hard disagree here. I realize you might be joking, but a bit of context here: a big chunk of the success of Cloud in more traditional organizations is the agility that comes with it: (almost) no need to ask permission to anyone, ownership of your resources, etc. There is no reason that baremetal shouldn't provide the same customer-oriented service, at least for th…

I think also this was only a temporary situation caused by the IT departments in these organisations being essentially bypassed. Once it became a big important thing then they have basically started to take control of it and you get the same problems (in fact potentially more so because the expense means there's more pressure cut down resources).
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