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M5 MacBook Pro

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Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#291

Post by tannhaeuser »

radley wrote: post #196
0xfaded wrote: post #52

To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future. Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification. 1. Everything…

Is there a HN bingo card? Because we always get a top comment for Linux user who tries Mac and decides they prefer Linux.

I have to agree. The loss of sense of reality among Linux fanboys is really annoying.

I had been a Linux notebook user for many years and have praised it on this board years ago. But today the Linux desktop has regressed into a piece of trash even for basic command line usage while providing zero exclusive apps worth using. It's really sad since it's unforced and brought upon Linux users by overzealous developers alone.

Mac OS trounces Linux in absolutely every way on the desktop it's not even funny: performance, battery life, apps, usability, innovation. Available PC notebook HW is a laughable value compared to even an entry level Apple MacBook Air. Anecdata but I have no less than five "pro" notebooks (Dell Lattitude, XPS, and Lenovo Thinkpad) come and go with basic battery problems, mechanical touchpad problems, touchpad driver issues, WLAN driver issues, power management issues, gross design issues, and all kind of crap come and go in the last five years so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

The one thing Mac isn't great for is games, and I think SteamOS/Proton/wine comes along nicely and timely as Windows is finally turning to the dark side entirely.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#292

Post by wingworks »

0xfaded wrote: post #52

To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future. Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification. 1. Everything…

I get the comment about Docker. Not being able to share memory with docker makes it a pain to use to run things alongside mac, unless you have mountains of ram.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#293

Post by mauflows »

1-more wrote: post #97
unshavedyak wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. I have a mostly CLI setup and in my experience Nix favors that on Mac, but nonetheless it makes my Nix and Linux setups a breeze. Everything is in sync, love it. Though if you don't like Nixlang it will of course be a chore to learn/etc. It was for me.

drop $20/month for any LLM and you don't even have to learn it!

LLMs are uniquely bad at writing nix configs I've found. The top models all regularly hallucinate options

Really useful for debugging though

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#294

Post by leakycap »

coldtea wrote: post #274
leakycap wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ship ... the box could be 10x larger and it wouldn't make a dent This is not how shipping works. A larger box, even by 1 inch on any direction, absolutely makes a huge difference when shipping in manufacturing quantities. Let's not pretend physical volume doesn't exist just to make an argument. 10 planes flying with MacBooks == much different than 1 plane (in other words, when you 10x the size of something, as you…

The point being made is "it's not the paper fr the box that's the issue". A smaller box allows more to be carried. But if we go that route, it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically - and that's a 2-3x volume reduction right there.

> it's trivial to ship them without any box and box them domestically

Ah yeah I can't imagine any scenario where this could go wrong

Like man in the middle attacks

Replacement/fake products

... or you know, damage? Boxes provide... protection.

> it's trivial

Anytime you catch yourself thinking something is trivial, you're probably trivializing it (aka think about it more and you'll probably be able to think of a dozen more reasons packaging products is the norm)

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#295

Post by sanswork »

nextos wrote: post #270
thewebguyd wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The window manager. I'm not a fan of all the animations and needing to gester between screens (and yes, I've been down the hotkeys rabbit hole). To install a 3rd party window manager, you need to disable some security setting because appearantly they work by injecting into the display manager and calling private APIs. Specifically for this, there's Aerospace ( https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace ) which does n…

Mac laptop hardware is objectively better, but I am on the same camp as the parent post. For most development workflows, Linux is my favorite option. In particular, I think NixOS and the convenience of x86_64 is usually worth the energy efficiency deficit with Apple M. It will be interesting to see how this evolves as local LLMs become mainstream and support for local hardware matures. Perhaps, the energy efficiency…

I develop using a MacBook because I like the hardware and non-development apps but all my accrual work happens on a Linux server I connect to. It's a good mix.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#296

Post by skinnymuch »

anajimi wrote: post #78
sofixa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker works very weirdly (it's a desktop application you have to install that has usage restrictions in enterprise contexts, and it's inside a VM so some things don't work), or you have to use an alternative with similar restrictions (Podman, Rancher Desktop). The OS also has weird rough edges when used from the terminal - there are read-only parts, there are restrictions on loading libraries, multiple utilities com…

I suggest trying Nix on Macos, it is very nice as a package manager but also it can be used as a way to replace Docker (at least for my needs, it works very well). This days I don't even bother installing brew on my Mac, I only use Nix.

Very interesting. I’m going to start using Nix it seems based off skimming how it works and can replace docker.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#297

Post by jonplackett »

leakycap wrote: post #174
tracker1 wrote: post #116

What really bugs me, is the huge performance gains are against the M1 and an (5-7yo chip) Intel Mac, that from my own memory had throttling and overheating issues. While not as impressive, I'd really appreciate if they simply showed the generational gains, or actual charts against several previous generations. I'm still pretty happy with my 16gb M1 Air, but it would be nice to know some closer to real world differenc…

You can't expect Apple to make an argument against their own chips... you're asking them to admit that they are making ~20% a year improvements when they want buyers to think it's a multiples-of-X improvement.

How did we already get to no-one being impressed by 20% better PER YEAR already.

Macs barely got faster for ages with Intel - they just got hotter and shorter on battery life.

20% per year is a doubling every 4y. That is awesome.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#298

Post by crazygringo »

handsclean wrote: post #267
crazygringo wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, every laptop needs a charger. If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. There's a reason they generally make sense to bundle. Especially with laptop chargers, which provide a whole lot more power than some random littl…

> If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. Sounds like a symptom of incompatibility. I’ve only ever included the charger when it was specific to the laptop. > And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. Chargers automatically provide whatever power level is needed, up…

> Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.

Only when there's no competition and you can use that to abuse market power.

But competition for laptops is strong. Most consumers want their laptops to come with a charger, even if you personally don't. That's why they're sold that way.

Like, nobody says the free market is failing because Coke forces me to buy carbonated H2O along with their syrup at the grocery store. The market prefers it when they're bundled.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#299

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

leakycap wrote: post #278
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All carriers are scammy in their own way

So, maybe don't do business with the worst of them? Of the big 3 in the US, T-Mobile is the one I'd avoid right now.

Verizon is overpriced and is the Comcast equivalent of cellular carriers. AT&T is about as bad

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#300

Post by jay_kyburz »

ElijahLynn wrote: post #280
root_axis wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, macOS sucks compared to Linux, but the m chip gets absolutely incredible battery life, whereas the framework gets terrible battery life. I still use my framework at work though.

Yes, there is a dilemma in the Linux space. But is running Linux on a MacBook a viable option these days? Is Ashahi Linux solid enough? I much prefer a framework and the repairability aspect. However, if it's going to sound like a jet engine and have half the battery life of a new m series Mac. Then I feel like there's really no option if I want solid battery life and good performance. Mac has done a great job here.…

Oh, I have that tab still open from when I was reading the other thread. Here is the feature support from Asahi. Still a way to go unless you are on an old M1 looks like?

https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/overvie...

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