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Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

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Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#291

Post by serf »

testing22321 wrote: post #283
dagmx wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not in LA so I haven’t ridden it but that’s a moot point to the discussion. Having tens of thousands of drivers over an unspecified time period rather than simultaneously isn’t really a flex imho.

I didn’t intend it to be a flex. I was stating what I saw when I rode it.

>Tens of thousands of riders

You saw tens of thousands of riders?

That anecdote just doesn't jibe with the throughput numbers -- that's why it seems like a flex, it's grossly inflated.

Now before we go into pedantry and you talk about how 'riders' meant 'all willing participants who are sitting in line' , fine -- i've been to SEMA and I understand those crowds , but those aren't riders. It's a misreporting of the situation, and frankly it seems intentional.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#292

Post by serf »

ceejayoz wrote: post #37
Seattle3503 wrote: post #35

The tricky thing about environmental regulations is that they are crafted and utilized by NIMBYs to block any infrastructure development. Even if, on balance, the infrastructure is a net positive. It's not clear if these violations actually represent a real environmental hazard or are more reflective of NIMBY degrowth sentiment.

Las Vegas does not strike me as a very friendly place for NIMBYs.

sort of? vegas and the surrounding areas are totally inundated with gated communities, I bet you'd get a LOT of nimbyism in those areas.

As far as the strip itself goes , well that's controlled by the corporate casino post-mafia folks. I think most of that stuff gets negotiated in backrooms.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#293

Post by dzhiurgis »

olyjohn wrote: post #269
dzhiurgis wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Tram lines are far cheaper than having miles and miles of tunnels in a vacuum. Actual trains can be loaded and unloaded faster, and don't need one driver for every 4 people. In fact, trains have been automated with no drivers for well over 50 years in many parts of the world. These cars, despite being on an extremely limited access roadway, still can't be trusted to drive themselves. They are literally in the most id…

Shifting goalposts.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#294

Post by fragmede »

araes wrote: post #252
ceejayoz wrote: post #19

> “Given the extraordinary number of violations, NDEP has decided to exercise its discretion to reduce the penalty to two $5,000 violations per permit, which it believes offers a reasonable penalty that will still serve to deter future non-compliance conduct,” regulators wrote in the letter. The fuck? "You were driving so fast we gave you a discount on the speeding fine."

Seems like a lot of parts of America have already learned that idea. Fat Leonard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal "Lets take the entire United States Seventh Fleet to the South Pacific for prostitutes and classified material handovers." 60 admirals got investigated. One, Admiral Gilbeau, got the first felony on active duty in modern history = 1.5 year prison, and continue collecting your $10,000 mon…

That's a helluva story, thanks for sharing!

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#295

Post by capriciotrary »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #100
freedomben wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another day, another invocation of the false dichotomy fallacy. If the truth isn't somewhere in the middle, then by definition it must be on one of the two extreme edges. That's a pretty bad (and ironic) fallacy to commit, unless you think everything in this world (or at least all regulations) are binary (either perfect or completely worthless)

> If the truth isn't somewhere in the middle, then by definition it must be on one of the two extreme edges In one dimension. If both sides are fundamentally wrong, the middle is probably also mischaracterised. Pro-and anti-phlogiston theorists [1] weren’t validated by a little phlogiston. They were superseded by oxygen theory. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory

I'm no electrical engineer. But I know it's crucial to not let the phlogiston out of the wires.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#296

Post by capriciotrary »

freedomben wrote: post #51
spankibalt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The truth is somewhere in the middle." Another day, another invocation of the golden mean fallacy.

Another day, another invocation of the false dichotomy fallacy. If the truth isn't somewhere in the middle, then by definition it must be on one of the two extreme edges. That's a pretty bad (and ironic) fallacy to commit, unless you think everything in this world (or at least all regulations) are binary (either perfect or completely worthless)

Another day, another infinite-dimensional Hilbert space.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#297

Post by fragmede »

terminalshort wrote: post #29
fl0id wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's telling that he only sees effectiveness in what he wants. these rules are there for environmental protection, and in a worst case scenario, a fine is not gonna bring back the clean soil, or whatever was done.

The clean soil in downtown Las Vegas?

It's not like there's a canyon or river or lake nearby that is of any size or goes anywhere.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#298

Post by skopje »

thereisnospork wrote: post #209
skopje wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stifled by a dumpster!!!

Yes. 5 figures were lit on fire, for a dumpster. Two, technically. Do you intend that isn't stifling, that a regulatory environment that requires spending 5 figured to house 2 dumpsters isn't stifling?

I bet there's so much more to this story than you're telling us.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#299

Post by s1artibartfast »

antonvs wrote: post #200
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Boring Company’s mission is in its name. Better boring tools. The Teslas running around inside it are dumb, but that’s almost the point: it’s a PR project. We wouldn’t be talking about it if it were a train. From what I can tell, TBC has failed to revolutionize tunnel-boring machines to date.

> From what I can tell, TBC has failed to revolutionize tunnel-boring machines to date. Also, if you look at those Vegas tunnels, they’re just wide enough for a single car. Every single subway system in the world has better tunnels than that, and many of them have existed for well over a century. The BC “mission” seems to be marketing hype that’s not quite as bad as “Mars colony”, but it’s still very far in the futur…

Cost. The boring tunnels are basically free to the city. Just permission to build. Look up SF or NYC or Seattle cost per tunnel mile.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#300

Post by everforward »

chrisfosterelli wrote: post #263
everforward wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In urban areas, they're usually an alternative. If you're going past the city, you could build a ground level highway around the city for a lot cheaper. If you're going into the city, it makes more economic sense to leave your car at the periphery of the city and take a rail system in because of the difference in throughput per $ spent building it (as well as the space occupied by parking for people who need to leave…

I think that's reasonable. I suppose I also think it idealist that cities will actually act that way in practice in the short term. I'm specifically thinking of examples like the Corniche highway in Alexandria or Marine drive in Mumbai which shows cities are willing to give up gorgeous public space throughout incredibly dense areas to support car traffic. But there's also examples like Boston's "big dig" which shows…

> I suppose one case where I would change my mind is if there was evidence that more affordable underground roads reduced the investment in public transit.

It's Friday night so I lack the motivation to go on a stats-finding expedition, but anecdotally this seems like a circular issue to me. Public transportation sucks, so no one wants to fund it and we invest money into car infrastructure. Traffic gets worse, but public transportation is still bad because we haven't improved it, so we dump more money into car infrastructure, and etc.

I do hear you about the practical realities, though. Most people will drive if they can, because it is more convenient (so long as we can keep building more roads, even at exorbitant prices).

I think there would be far less support if people could see what they're actually spending on car infrastructure. At least in the US, it's currently so fractured it's hard to get an idea. Registration fees, gas taxes, federal taxes that get pumped into highway maintenance, etc. There's no clear "we spend $X on car infrastructure, and we could have really good public transportation for $Y".

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