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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

riksbank.se

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Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#291

Post by what »

derefr wrote: post #243
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

>they don’t want to pay interchange fees

That seems totally fair if they can’t pass that cost on to you for using a card. Why should they have to pay to accept your patronage?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#292

Post by renhanxue »

noduerme wrote: post #285
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

When you say "buying a used car"... do you mean from a dealership, or from a private party? In America, I almost can't imagine buying a used car from an individual without paying them in cash. Indeed, it's one of the few situations where a large amount of cash is almost always required. It's a pain to go to the bank and get that cash. However, this is not because of tax evasion or something ... it's to avoid any sort…

We usually use an app for that (Swish, it's kind of like Venmo I guess, developed in collaboration between the six largest banks). We don't really do transaction reversals in the same way or as commonly as in the US.

Paying for a used car in cash would actually be difficult because handling an amount greater than the equivalent of around USD $1k immediately starts tripping KYC/AML flags at any bank if you try to deposit it, and it's hard to use in day to day life because few places other than grocery stores even accept cash anymore.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#294

Post by renhanxue »

what wrote: post #291
derefr wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

>they don’t want to pay interchange fees That seems totally fair if they can’t pass that cost on to you for using a card. Why should they have to pay to accept your patronage?

A cheaper alternative to cards here is app payment via Swish (approximately like Venmo). Goes straight to the vendor's bank account at a flat rate of the equivalent of USD ~$0.15 per transaction.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#295

Post by hakfoo »

devmor wrote: post #77
g-mork wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EMV standard has long supported an offline transaction flow. AFAIK it was the default almost everywhere in Finland circa 2011, contactless there was almost always instantaneous. Digging into why that was compared to the invariable wait when using contactless in the UK revealed this flow. The card has a variety of risk counters on it that allow it to securely decide whether an offline transaction can proceed, at l…

A lot of internet payments work this way already anyways, not many gateways require auth before capture, processors/payfacs just do it because it gives lower interchange and reduces risk.

A lot of the time, that's still API smoke and mirrors.

The API call is labelled "sale", but it performs an auth and at the end of the day the system still generates a capture or settlement-style message.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#296

Post by cyberax »

HWR_14 wrote: post #183
gambiting wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK and I have friends who will tell you hand on heart that they have never handled a £50 note. They know they exist but they haven't had one.

Is that just because it's an unpopular bill? Most Americans have probably never used a $50 bill either.

> Is that just because it's an unpopular bill?

Let me introduce you to a $2 note.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#297

Post by cyberax »

coldblues wrote: post #230

Every time I see posts like these related to fiat, my heart sinks. Despite pro privacy sentiments across the site, there is a concerning amount of people who have not only fallen to the trap of convenience, but even consider cash use suspicious or criminal (the morality of tax evasion is a whole different subject, the places where it's most popular often coincides with a corrupt, inefficient government). Soon, cash u…

> but cryptocurrency will take its place, it has already to a limited extent.

No. No, it won't. Although labeling regular electronic payments as "cryptocurrency" might become more popular.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#298

Post by what »

renhanxue wrote: post #294
what wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they don’t want to pay interchange fees That seems totally fair if they can’t pass that cost on to you for using a card. Why should they have to pay to accept your patronage?

A cheaper alternative to cards here is app payment via Swish (approximately like Venmo). Goes straight to the vendor's bank account at a flat rate of the equivalent of USD ~$0.15 per transaction.

Why don’t you pay the transaction fee every time you use your card or whatever then? Why should the merchant foot the bill?

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#299

Post by renhanxue »

dumbfounder wrote: post #260
derefr wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

There are businesses that attract people that use cards fraudulently and the business gets flagged demand eventually dropped. Gas stations in less desirable neighborhoods in the US have this issue and some only take cash.

Credit card fraud is not nearly as common in Europe as it is in the US.

Additionally, and specifically in Sweden, the fees that banks charge businesses for handling cash (picking it up and depositing it at the end of each business day) have increased significantly in the last decade or two. This has been a significant factor in driving businesses away from cash - it's just expensive for them to deal with.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#300

Post by renhanxue »

what wrote: post #298
renhanxue wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cheaper alternative to cards here is app payment via Swish (approximately like Venmo). Goes straight to the vendor's bank account at a flat rate of the equivalent of USD ~$0.15 per transaction.

Why don’t you pay the transaction fee every time you use your card or whatever then? Why should the merchant foot the bill?

Having a cash register and handling cash costs money too, doesn't it? It's just a cost of doing business.
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