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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#291

Post by FridayoLeary »

n4r9 wrote: post #238
FridayoLeary wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police are overreaching massively. They are making 30 arrests a day and "interview" many more. We do not rely on the ECHR to protect our free speech. If we did the UK would no longer be a democracy. I'm offended by the suggestion that our democracy and society is so fragile that without them we would have no rights. Expect a police raid very soon.

The "30 arrests a day" or "12000 arrests a year" stat is wildly misleading. I've addressed it before here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41488099

I think you're being disingenous. There is clearly an unprecedented and systemic effort to police social media. Even if the posts did actually violate the law doesn't change my point or address my concerns. This is not what the police should be doing.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#292

Post by dijit »

phatfish wrote: post #280
dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

I'd love to know how this "march towards authoritarianism" actually manifests in the real world. Not just in the head space of podcast grifters and privacy nuts. I've lived in the UK my whole life. Multiple other countries have liberated themselves and then returned to authoritarian governments within my lifetime. Strangely this hasn't happened in the UK, plenty of people trying to wish it into existence though.

An average of 30 people a day are arrested for offending people over the internet (according to the Mirror)

The government regularly unpersons disagreeable people.

I really wish it wasn’t happening, as it stands I am not going to move back.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#293

Post by Avamander »

t43562 wrote: post #99

I think it would be nice not to have to prove identity and address repeatedly with lots of paper utility bills. As for abuse by authority: well don't elect a populist party then. If you do it won't matter what defenses you think you have.

Utility bills as verification have always been weird to me. How is that actual proof?

I can't see how that doesn't cut off more of the populace than having a national ID would. Assuming it's an issue as mentioned a few times here in comments.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#294

Post by Avamander »

iamnothere wrote: post #284
Avamander wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, governments do need a centralized common identity if they intend to build something like a social credit system. Which the US already has to a very large extent with the Social Security system.

Please read comments in full before replying to them: > US government systems are a hodgepodge of different systems built by different vendors, over different computing eras, many of which lack a primary key relationship with something like your social security number (the current “default” identifier). Many are plagued with duplicate records, data problems, and other issues that prevent easy correlation of records w…

Please understand that supposedly poor data quality is not a defence against an authoritarian country wanting to implement a social credit system.

Some national ID system won't make such ambitions significantly easier, but lack of such a system causes exactly the issues you quoted.

So is this hypothetical social credit system in the hands of an incompetent government worth it all? Over identity theft and the multi-billion industry around it?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#295

Post by DanielHB »

philipallstar wrote: post #271
DanielHB wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judicial system is the one who is supposed to prevent abuses of power like this. What you are proposing is essentially security through obscurity, if the data is fragmented all over the place on different institutions it is really hard to be exploited in the government, but still totally can be. Confidential data can have better security checks and encryption layers so it is accessible only by the citizen itself…

> What you are proposing is essentially security through obscurity It's a great way to combat bureacracies. It only doesn't work against smart people, such as computer hackers.

This kind of security benefits the general population against mass-scale crackdowns (like dodging conscription in Russia) of course, but it can still be weaponized against individuals (like journalists, dissidents, political opposition). Which are the main people who needs this kind of data-protection.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#296

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #234
oncallthrow wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46959556... is one example of a successful prosecution. There are many more cases of harassment by the police or arrests, the most recent example that comes to mind being Graham Linehan. These are clearly not as bad as prosecutions, but still create a chilling effect.

Linehan was arrested for inciting violence. He encouraged people to punch trans women.

[deleted]

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#297

Post by wastle »

n4r9 wrote: post #234
oncallthrow wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-46959556... is one example of a successful prosecution. There are many more cases of harassment by the police or arrests, the most recent example that comes to mind being Graham Linehan. These are clearly not as bad as prosecutions, but still create a chilling effect.

Linehan was arrested for inciting violence. He encouraged people to punch trans women.

[flagged]

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#298

Post by cedws »

puppycodes wrote: post #122

Oh hell yes two million signatures lets gooooo. Finally some inspiring movement on this front.

It’s a lot of signatures but the petition against the Online Safety Act got 500k and the response was basically just “lolno.”

What’s the point of democracy if the people say no and the government does it anyway?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#299

Post by Avamander »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #226
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

Majority of users here are american. Americans made trump president. Twice. Americans are not sane.

I suspect that lack of an electronic ID won't hinder insanity, but does hinder a lot of everyday actions and businesses.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#300

Post by Avamander »

idkfasayer wrote: post #153
skeletal88 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our system in Estonia works well. I don't get the resistance to a digital/national id in other countries. To us it is quite bizarre. Some have explained it with a lack of trust between citizens and the country. But without such digital id it is impossible to have such digital government services as we have here. The government services need to verify and autheticate the citizen, so they only access their own data and…

You don't get the resistance? Imagine a Russia-friendly party getting elected. Doesn't have to be overtly pro-russian. Can be someone very nationalist like Marine Le Pen in France. Or socialist like Sarah Wagenknecht in Germany. Just someone with financially dependent on Russia, or simply owing them favour. Now imagine them accidentally leaving some loophole in the system, such that Russians get read or maybe even wr…

If they get elected they can fuck everyone over the exact same way.

The fact that there's something akin to a unique identifier or that it has a corresponding certificate or some means for authentication will and does not stop any malicious government. Never has, has it?

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