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EU age verification app not planning desktop support

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Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#291

Post by irusensei »

gclawes wrote: post #187

Tin foil hat time: this is why Google is pushing to kill app sideloading. Mobile phones are the only platform at the moment that can reasonably be used to enforce mandatory software installs and remote attestation. Removing sideloading can down the road leading to Google (or Apple for IOS) forcing all app store provided apps/browsers to support government authentication APIs like this.

Google is gung-ho on embracing every kind of identification law because it aligns with their business model. They sell ads therefore it is important that humans are authenticated. Other social media companies like X have similar incentives.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#292

Post by lucb1e »

amelius wrote: post #18

Something tells me the granny on the bus can verify her age by going to the local service desk.

Here's the official Dutch government solution for if your mobile phone doesn't have NFC, if they don't support your phone's OS, or if they actively went out of their way to block your android distribution: "go ask for another person's device then" https://www.digid.nl/stappenplan/id-check-toevoegen-aan-de-d...

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#293

Post by MatteoFrigo »

vaylian wrote: post #169
f_devd wrote: post #164

I've posted this as a response but I'll post it again since it seems like a lot of people are confused about the project: This project is not THE digital wallet, it is an early prototype of the wallet (which can be criticized for what it is, but the issue is somewhat orthogonal). The actual infrastructure is not based on attenstation, if you read the guidelines (or the readme) they actually want to implement a double…

Thanks for chiming in! Is there some documentation on the Zero-Knowledge-Proof, that this app is supposed to use?

See https://github.com/google/longfellow-zk

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#294

Post by irusensei »

emigre wrote: post #256

I think that the European Digital Identity project should not be hosting its source code and content related to European standards, guidelines, and initiatives on GitHub, a closed source product owned by Microsoft.

Quick! Save the EU from Microsoft by cloning it to your hard drive so the code can be safe and sound.

Nah seriously this doesn't really apply to Git.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#295

Post by bonoboTP »

jacobgkau wrote: post #274
bonoboTP wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are verbose and vague about it: "Some passengers may be concerned about what they can do if they lose their phone or of their devices run out of battery before the pass board the aircraft. Ryanair has said they will assist people experiencing difficulties free of charge at the gate gathering their information and flight details which will be cross-checked and validated against the flight manifest so that they ca…

Of course-- there will be accommodations to start out with. Then, after the new system has become "just the way things work," the accommodations will be removed for security or efficiency or some other reason. Or maybe not. I've never lost a boarding pass, but if you lose one, you can get it re-issued somewhere, right?

The likely future is where you'll be given a USB-C charger to charge your phone. If you have no phone or is broken, it will be the equivalent to having a strongly damaged passport. No fly that day, get a new phone, fly on another date, just like if you needed a new passport. The phone will be your ID, passport, credit card and everything. But since it will be all backed up in Google/Apple/Microsoft cloud, maybe you'll be able to buy a new simple phone near the gate, log in via fingerprint and facial recognition and go on your merry way. But also, once all this stuff is connected up in the cloud, maybe facial and fingerprint recognition will be enough to fly. NFC chips under the skin are probably too bad optics for the near future, but in one or two generations, attitudes will shift.

> I've never lost a boarding pass, but if you lose one, you can get it re-issued somewhere, right?

Yes, typically there's a fee for getting it printed at the check-in counter.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#296

Post by XorNot »

wkat4242 wrote: post #281
bonoboTP wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another recent news about mandated app use: Ryanair now (from November) requires using their app for the boarding pass, no more printouts from the desktop. Also, they refuse to show the QR code for the boarding pass in a mobile browser via the website, you must use their app. https://www.msn.com/en-ie/travel/news/ryanair-s-new-check-in...

A BIG reason these companies like Ryanair want you to use their app its that it's much easier to collect data about you than through a website :(

No, it's a cost cutting measure. App-only reduces support and development costs with whoever they're outsourcing this too.

There's a line item which basically said "mobile web" and they wanted it gone to save some number of dollars per year.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#297

Post by lucb1e »

afandian wrote: post #59

When the UK age verification legislation was being debated I recall people saying "don't worry about unintended consequences, it's not like you'll be have to show your ID to random websites! Someone will show up with a reasonable methodology. You'll be able to e.g. show your ID at a shop and get an anonymous token.". And plenty of people, including myself, thought "this is so dystopian it couldn't possibly happen". I…

I would be curious what it's like in the UK. It would probably do well as an HN submission if you're up for writing a blog post about it. All I know is that they passed some legislation that requires people to authenticate for anything that could possibly show nudity or something, including Wikipedia, and that VPN apps were going wild. I don't know what it's actually like in daily life, how one does authenticate to Wikipedia (or if they bought themselves time for now by iirc suing the govt?), if there are privacy-friendly age verification options and if those options are commonly implemented by the websites that need it, etc.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#298

Post by XorNot »

bonoboTP wrote: post #249
card_zero wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> increasingly welded together That's an insinuation with some vague truth to it, but not much. Budget airlines are not government departments, and competition between them isn't phony. "The sky is blue" "I feel that it is increasingly yellow"

There's little competition pressure because consumers don't care. I guess the standard theory says that the buck ends there. If people are fine with it, it's fine.

You are arguing there's little competition pressure between budget airlines, a business with notoriously razor thin margins which people shop almost exclusively on price to the exclusion of all other parameters?

This isn't a serious argument.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#299

Post by dzhiurgis »

wkat4242 wrote: post #283
okanat wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in EU. Many banks mandate you either have an iPhone or Google approved Android as 2FA. Those fucking idiots have killed their own competition options.

Spain provides smart cards to their citizens. Mobile is not needed.

My experience of using them is horrible.

Re: EU age verification app not planning desktop support

#300

Post by lucb1e »

Almondsetat wrote: post #118

This is strange, in Italy our eID system can be used from the desktop with a (recent) smart card reader

Add Belgium and Germany to the list.

Notably not the Netherlands. They've got the ID card chip (as required internationally iirc) but I emailed them once to get the public key so I can verify signatures (this was like 2016, I was still in school) and they said it was for governmental use only. It's not meant to be used by commercial entities

Why the EU decides to go with the bad example rather than the good example, I have no idea. Both ways achieve the stated goal of age verification and even the possible goal of universal ID tracking, without disallowing you to do whatever you want with your phone's privacy settings

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