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The elegance of movement in Silksong

theahura.substack.com

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Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#291

I won't play action games without an easy mode anymore. I've beaten all Dark Souls games and I just got tired of proving myself over and over. Nowadays I just want mild challenge and the certainty I will win after trying a couple of times.

There are plenty of games with no difficulty settings at all that are easier than, say, Touhou Kinjoukyou’s easy mode. Elden Ring, for instance. Why is the presence of an ‘easy mode’ even a significant factor here?

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#292
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 100 games over 40 years is not a lot. You continue to miss my point, as your comment about concurrent player count indicates. I think when you ask people to come up with a list of what they'd consider the best of something, most would max out somewhere between five and ten. Most people don't think of things along the lines of the AFI 100 Best Films list. They think in much smaller categories. > If being one of the…

> That article doesn't include any ranking as far as I could see, and your use of that article is specifically the thing I'm taking issue with in this thread. Are you referring to a different source? There are 23 entries since 2015 on that page, Hollow Knight included. By definition, it's one of the best 23 games during that period, according to that specific list. > I think when you ask people to come up with a list…

> There are 23 entries since 2015 on that page, Hollow Knight included. By definition, it's one of the best 23 games during that period, according to that specific list.

Okay, but that's an argument that it's considered one of the best games of the last decade. Hopefully you can understand my confusion.

> It sounds like you're making up bizarre exclusionary criteria to discount the fact that Hollow Knight is widely regarded by many people as one of the best games of all time, which explains the hype behind Silksong.

*shrug* I don't think it's that weird. This certainly isn't something I'm coming up with on the fly. I've felt like this for a long time, as have the authors of the many articles complaining about the meaninglessness of the even larger number of "best of" lists.

> This doesn't mean you have to like it

You've made several comments which make it sound like I'm arguing this because I don't like the game. I'd appreciate you not doing that both because I did quite like it and because it implies that my feelings about the game are biasing my argument. I'd make this same argument if you'd used that Wikipedia article to support your feelings about Red Dead Redemption 2. I'd probably personally consider that one of the best games I've ever played[0] but would object to using its presence in that article as proof that it was widely considered to be one of the best of all time.

[0] Honestly I'm still not sure if I should compare it to other games I've played or put it in its own category of interactive movie. It was incredibly good, but the parts I think of as being the best are the performances and the technical achievement and clever landscaping of the game world.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#294

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun. They are meant to delight with their whimsy. Sometimes, yes, they are meant to be challenging. But that challenge is in service of fun. Games, more than any other form of entertainment, offer skill challenges. As they've become more popular they've gotten better ab…

It's unfair that you cut off the quote there. Because in the next paragraphs: > And yet. > I have played this game obsessively since it came out. I cannot put it down... This game is incredible, I say to myself as a small grub brutally murders me for the mistake of touching its seemingly soft and cuddly body.

I am in agreement with the author regarding Silksong. It's the author's understanding about games in general that seems to have a bit of a blind spot (despite being deep in other ways).

These games may be masterpieces but they don't come out of nowhere, there are many other games where skill mastery is much or even most of the appeal. I also somewhat wanted to pick on the line that the Mario games are the only other games that put as much care into how you traverse the world.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#295
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several runbacks that are quite painful. I'm on the last bit of the game now and while I've overall very much enjoyed it there's more than a few spots where I thought "this is just tedious".

A great motivation to get it right this time. :)

True enough! XD

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#296
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mods already exists which can make game more forgiving. Limiting damage to one is great start. Don't be ashamed to use them on Silksong, developers went hardcore for this one.

I aborted my 3 Hollow Knight attempts because of boss runbacks. Is there a mod that, I don’t know, adds benches before bosses or something? Then I might finally finish the game. I do enjoy hard-but-fair boss fights after all.

Yes, there is a mod for Hollow Knight called Benchwarp that lets you place benches wherever you want and fast travel between them.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been watching this process with a keen eye as a technical consultant, and one thing I've learnt is that naive models of large organisations as Profit=Revenue-Costs is totally inadequate for enterprise sales. Yes, it is true that saving money anywhere will improve profits, but you can only sell that to an individual who's personal KPI needles move because of this! If the cost is in dept X but the profit is record…

... Couldn't companies gain a competitive edge by fixing their internal structures and aligning the KPI needles?

Yes. But that's like saying "a racecar would gain a competitive advantage by being faster."

Getting your internal structures right and aligning your incentives is one of the main challenges of building and running a large company! If it were easy, you wouldn't see nearly so many massively-inefficient corporate giants. :)

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoilers: Silksong has arenas with 3 mobs that throw discs plus you. Idk about you, but I can't track 7 things moving at once. This isn't fun. Nor is it challenging, you just have to get lucky. I like Silksong, but the only way some the bosses were made challenging was because of constant adds. Hollow Knight rarely had this.

Silksong has the basic issue that it was effectively designed as extended content for people who had already beaten the secret harder stuff in Hollow Knight, rather than as its own game or even as a sequel for people who had "just" beaten the basic game in HK.

At one point (2020) they did intend for the difficulty to be similar to Hollow Knight:

> So Team Cherry is not out to make a more difficult sequel, then: they're hoping for it to be a "comparable" test of skill to Hollow Knight, Pellen says, while Gibson explains that starting with the clean slate of an entirely new kingdom with its own lore and new characters is another way in which Silksong is designed to be "a perfect jumping-on point for new players. We're trying to be really, really mindful that we want this to be a game that new people can come into, and experience as their first Hollow Knight game — that it sits alongside the original game, and the difficulty also sits alongside the game in that way."

https://www.reddit.com/r/metroidvania/comments/oebdg6/the_ho...

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just have to get lucky. You can definitely learn and not have to rely on luck - watch a video of someone good playing a bullet hell shooter[0] and getting a perfect score with no hits. There is not a world that exists in which you could accomplish that with luck. [0] Touhou is probably the definitive example here. Something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY7QEEnSGVU

I'm sure it isn't luck but at the same time I watch these things and genuinely don't understand how they do it. Particularly the whole thing of seeing and reacting that quick. It reminds me of how bad I am with rhythm games. I can't even get through Easy on DDR because the arrows move too fast. It's like I can't read them and react quick enough. Typically I do much better with games where the point isn't to see, proc…

> I can't even get through Easy on DDR because the arrows move too fast

The trick to basically all of these games is not to actually try and look at the arrows. There are a lot of them, they are moving fast, your conscious mind can't actually track and respond to each one of them individually.

But with practice you can train your self to more-or-less automatically respond to the sequence - there are only a handful of variations, and you learn the patterns that they typically arrive in.

(For a little while I had too much free time on my hands, and was in the top-100 BeatSaber players)

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I appreciate stories and standard gameplay loops more than bossfights. I did stumble upon a game where I enjoy the bossfights though - in V Rising. There is a TON of bosses in the game, but the game is so full of quality of life stuff that even dying repeatedly is not a big deal. I generally dislike when my time is a stake in the game. I have so little of it in the first place, I don't like risking it in…

It’s interesting how many people with little time still manage to make time to comment on how little time they have in news article comment threads.

It all hinges the many interpretations of "time". For example, this comment takes 5 minutes from me, during a transition between two larger tasks. The gaming I described though is different. I don't even start a game if I don't have at least an hour or so.

Also, people often mean "energy" or "willpower" by "time". It's like a general, non-material cost of things. "I don't have the time for X" can many times be translated to "I can't imagine managing another context", "I don't want to commit to X", "I can't be assed to start doing X after everything I do in a day", etc. Time in these context is just a convenient scapegoat. This is also addressed by the idea “It’s not about “having” time. It’s about making time.”. For what they really want, people seem to "make time" for, even in the busiest schedules.

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