996 • Hacker News Board

Re: 996

#291

Post by ohdeargodno » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:08 PM UTC

paulcole wrote: post #271

Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

> When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. Or a helpful signal to join that company if it’s something you’re excited about. It’s crazy to me that people are so arrogant to say that somebody else is “wrong” for being excited about something.

996 done on your own time without expectations of it being done can be understood if you're excited about it. It's dumb, it ruins your health and your social experiences, but whatever, you're usually young and dumb. A good employer would actively tell you to slow down and manage your energy if it goes on for too long..

996 mandated by the company is 1/ illegal 2/ straight up illegal 3/ a clear signal that they do not see you as a human being.

Worst case scenario, 996 is dumb. Not a super high bar to clear.

Re: 996

#292

Post by hiatus » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #260

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably need to rethink how companies are structured - there are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries but are (in theory) dictatorships with no official ability to change course if the one guy who owns the shares does not want to. Who is the ‘demos’ in a company? Who gets a vote ? Will voting really slow things down?

> here are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries IS that true? What do you define as the revenue of a country? Tax revenues? That is just the government. GDP/GNP/GNI? That comparison for that should be profit, and only a handful of really big companies (Saudi Aramco, Apple, that sort of size) have a profit as large as the GDP of mid-size middle income countries (e.g. Sri Lanka) or small rich coun…

Why would GDP be the proxy for a country's profit? If I pay someone to build a house and another person to tear that house down, both activities contribute to GDP while producing nothing of tangible value.

Re: 996

#293

Post by georgeburdell » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:09 PM UTC

NaomiLehman wrote: post #179

Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

I don't understand what kind of job, except for some very, very fringe cases like a NASA active mission or an atomic threat, would require a person to pull all-nighters. And how is that productive in the long-term? It's not exactly easy to hire talent.

I have not pulled an all nighter proper (the worst was going to sleep at 6 and waking up at 7:30), but working late into the night is usually distraction free. During work hours, I feel obligated to quickly respond to coworker's emails and help requests, so most of my own work is worthless during that time unless it’s the equivalent of updating a config file

Re: 996

#294

Post by ergl » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

996 can only be celebrated in a deeply rotted culture without worker rights and labor protections. Embarrasing.

Re: 996

#295

Post by swiftcoder » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #93

jennyholzer wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

996 means devoting your life to your work. If you work 996 without either: a. The opportunity to make millions of dollars b. Ownership of the means of production c. No other more dignified employment opportunities It sincerely appears to me that you are throwing your life away. If you're in this boat, I hope you have a long-term plan.

> It sincerely appears to me that you are throwing your life away. ... or need to provide for dependents and have few other options?

That is covered by option (c) above

Re: 996

#296

Post by ninetyninenine » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:10 PM UTC

Onyx is a company that does this. Do not work for them 7 days a week. They hire desperate people and exploit them.

Re: 996

#297

Post by dclowd9901 » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:11 PM UTC

whstl wrote: post #177

996 is just theater for investors. Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9. The reality is that people twiddle thumbs. And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour. This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company w…

Yeah they point to Chinese work culture but I think it probably resembles more Japanese work culture where you're just filling a seat until your boss leaves.

Re: 996

#298

Post by jvanderbot » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:11 PM UTC

skeeter2020 wrote: post #220

scubbo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and take all the upside And all of the risk. Encouraging anyone to start their own company is deeply irresponsible. Most startups fail. If you're needing encouragement to do it - if you're not already fully deluded that you're the special snowflake unique genius who will succeed where all others have failed - you shouldn't be doing it.

>> Most startups fail. so how is it different being a salaried employee at one of these companies? You say they're likely to fail; shouldn't you get the bigger lottery ticket then?

It is different because you collect a salary the whole time and build your resume. Its not like you file an LLC and then receive a check in the mail for two years of whatever you want.

For a CEO founder, 996 is necessary to even have a shot at building and fundraising, and even then you're likely to quickly fail. Instead an IC banks on joining a founder who has funding and can get more while you build and collect a reasonable salary, and save for rainy day.

Re: 996

#299

Post by ForOldHack » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:11 PM UTC

akerl_ wrote: post #254

graemep wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 996 is just theater for investors. Investors who have not heard of the research into productivity that says long hours have no significant benefit for skilled work? Who have not heard of diminishing returns? Who have no experience of the reality of working long hours themselves?

The market for this is people who are convinced that the research only proved most people are lazy and unproductive. Surely these wiz kids we’re backing are too jazzed about their startup dreams to have their output decrease after the first 24 hours of constant caffeine and hacking.

12 hours max then the crash of undecipjerable gibberish. See? Your brain requires rest. My 12 hours days had two naps. While the rest of the team did not, in only a month, everyone but me literally crashed and burned...the first clue was them not finishing sentences. Next was searching for words, and then the pause while they stare off into space. All the Facebook prison experiment.

Re: 996

#300

Post by mrbonner » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 5:12 PM UTC

I read somewhere (not remember though) that in the 2000s, the working culture in Japan was crazy. It was even crazier than the 996. In reality, most just did things inefficiently, i.e, writing a short email would take 20 minutes. So, with all those inefficiencies added up, pouring 14 hours away day didn't seem to contribute much productivity anyway.