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Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#291

Post by kelnos »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #98
docstryder wrote: post #75

It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pil…

I'm sorry but as a non American I can only think about Rehab Officer Tylenol Jones from the Idiocracy movie since that's the first time I heard about Tylenol without knowing it's a drug, and in the movie everyone had well known American brands as their names due to overreach of corporate marketing into society, but that part of the satire went over my head as a European kid back then, thinking Tylenol was just a pers…

> I wonder if Americans know how much of their society and culture bled incompletely into other countries via movies.

As with anything, it depends. I'd never heard specifically of your Tylenol example, though I'm generally aware of the idea that (pop-)cultural references often won't be understood when viewed/heard by audiences with different cultural context.

But I think many people in the US just don't think about it, because they don't need to and it never occurs to them. If you told them your story, they'd just think "huh, that's funny; makes sense, but I never thought about it that way".

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#292

Post by Rohansi »

ejstronge wrote: post #170
protonbob wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief.

> Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief. It very much is still your wife's body - what other sentient entity is avail…

It's to reduce the risk of preeclampsia.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#293

Post by Earw0rm »

knicholes wrote: post #289
VikingCoder wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out epigenetics. "Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression that occur without altering the underlying DNA sequence. These changes, also known as epigenetic modifications, affect how genes are turned "on" or "off" and are influenced by factors like environment, lifestyle, and aging."

Himalayan rabbits having black fur where their skin is cold and white fur where it's warm is a useful and obvious example of this.

Are the imprinted patterns then inherited, though?

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#294

Post by duskwuff »

knicholes wrote: post #289
VikingCoder wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out epigenetics. "Epigenetics is the study of heritable changes in gene expression that occur without altering the underlying DNA sequence. These changes, also known as epigenetic modifications, affect how genes are turned "on" or "off" and are influenced by factors like environment, lifestyle, and aging."

Himalayan rabbits having black fur where their skin is cold and white fur where it's warm is a useful and obvious example of this.

That's a separate effect, known as acromelanism, or "point coloration". It's the result of an enzyme which is inactivated by higher temperatures, not a genetic change - the extent of pointing can change over an animal's lifetime, and the specific pattern isn't inherited. (For instance, if you somehow convinced a cat with color pointing to wear a sweater, its fur would stay light under that sweater, but any offspring it had would not inherit that pattern.)

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#295

Post by kelnos »

daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

> or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK

Mildly amusing anecdote: years ago I visited my then-company's office in London (I'm from the US), and fell sick during my time there. One of my London-local colleagues recommended I get "Night Nurse", and told me of the magical virtues of paracetamol. I'd never heard of it (either the brand name or the drug name), and assumed it was some great drug that for some silly reason the US FDA decided not to approve. It worked perfectly well, but frankly no better than what I'd take at home.

Much later I looked up "paracetamol" and discovered it's the same thing as acetaminophen... "oh, Night Nurse is just the UK version of NyQuil", I realized, somewhat disappointed, the magic lost.

> I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen

I wouldn't say I'm hostile toward it, but the number one cause of headaches for me is alcohol consumption, and I was taught that alcohol plus acetaminophen is a strict no-no. Ibuprofen -- in the recommended dose -- is generally fine with alcohol. (I don't binge drink anymore, but as I get older, even 3 or 4 cocktails over the span of 4-6 hours can give me a headache later.)

But when I come down with a cold, it's (the cheaper, generic version of) NyQuil for me. A bonus is that NyQuil also contains dextromethorphan (cough suppressant) and doxylamine succinate (antihistamine) (or phenylephrine in the non-drowsy DayQuil variant), which IIRC Night Nurse/Day Nurse did not include. (Looks like it does contain dextromethorphan and promethazine now; not sure if it didn't back then, or if I'm just misremembering.)

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#296

Post by azinman2 »

kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

According to my friend who is a geneticist, 30% of cases of autism can be found in DNA. Clearly not all cases are.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#297

Post by kelnos »

WalterBright wrote: post #218
daveoc64 wrote: post #80

I'm always surprised at the hostility to Acetaminophen on HN (or Paracetamol as we call it here in the UK). It's one of the most commonly used medicines in the UK - and certainly the most popular painkiller. YouGov even did a survey confirming that - https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/docume... The safety aspects of it are not something that gets raised in the UK much - other than suicide attempts,…

A friend of mine, Eric Engstrom, died of liver failure after taking (too much) Tylenol. Tylenol use over time can sneak up on you in the form of cumulative liver damage. No, I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice. Personally, a works-most-of-the-time treatment for headaches is going out for a walk. I don't know why it works, but it does.

My understanding is that if taken in the recommended dose, and not taken for a longer period of time (consecutive doses, I mean) than the bottle says to, you don't end up with cumulative damage.

The damage should only occur if you take more than the recommended dose, or continue using it longer than the recommended period.

(Also not a doctor and this isn't medical advice.)

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#298

Post by foxglacier »

ejstronge wrote: post #170
protonbob wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief.

> Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief. It very much is still your wife's body - what other sentient entity is avail…

> what other sentient entity is available for consultation?

Surely you don't mean what you imply there? Not being sentient or available for consultation don't justify harming a person. A mother absolutely has a moral responsibility not to cause lifelong harm to the sentient entity her baby will later become. You wouldn't say excess alcohol consumption during pregnancy is only up to the mother's decision about her own body when there are adults walking around with terrible lives because of fetal alcohol syndrome.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#299

Post by kelnos »

piker wrote: post #231
tialaramex wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Paracetamol was invented today it would likely never receive an OTC (over the counter sale, meaning you can just buy it from a retail outlet the way you'd buy cough medicine or toothpaste) license in the UK. Yes, it's safe (and for a bunch of people including me, effective) at the licensed dose, but it's useless at about half that dose, and it's toxic, leading to very nasty deaths in some cases, at just about 3-4…

Always surprises me as an American in the UK how hostile the UK is to paracetamol. You buy it in like 300-pill packages in the US, and I've literally never heard of anyone having a single accidental over-dose. I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone intentionally overdosing on it, but I guess I can't rule that out since I'm aware of who 1-2 people personally have taken "a handful of pills". The efficacy window of driv…

> Always surprises me as an American in the UK how hostile the UK is to paracetamol.

This is so funny because there's a post in another subthread by someone from the UK saying the same thing about Americans being hostile toward it.

I've only been to the UK a few times, but I feel like it's a funny meme that people in the UK unhesitatingly suggest and take paracetamol for everything. I guess that's not really true, or at least has some truth to it but is an exaggeration?

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