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Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

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Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#291

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #181
codedokode wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair, if AI companies are allowed to download pirated content for "learning", why ordinary people cannot.

There is so much damning evidence that AI companies have committed absolutely shocking amounts of piracy, yet nothing is being done. It only highlights how the world really works. If you have money you get to do whatever the fuck you want. If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse. Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GptobqPsvg

The dead corpses of filmmakers and authors and actors are buried in unmarked graves out behind those companies' corporate headquarters. Unimaginable horror, that piracy. Why has no one intervened?

>If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse.

Not that I'm a big fan of the criminalization of copyright infringement in the United States, but who has ever spent years in jail for this?

Besides, if it really bothered you, then we might not see this weird tone-switch from one sentence to the next, where you seem to think that piracy is shocking and "something should be done" and then "it's not good tht someone should spend time in jail for it". What gives?

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#292

Post by the_af »

0x457 wrote: post #277
the_af wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, Netflix occasionally still puts in its English subtitles "[foreign music]", it always cracks me up.

[speaks japanese] To be fair, there is a difference between when subtitles match the source language and when they don't. Former are often verbatim.

Haha, yes, it's fair when English subtitles write something like [speaks Japanese], especially when at least one of the characters is not supposed to understand what's being said (when they do, it's more appropriate to write "[in Japanese]: let's go shopping!").

Netflix sometimes takes the cake with what I consider the most outrageous option: writing "[in English]" when they mean "in whatever language the protagonist considers native", which is mind-bogglingly wrong and hilarious at the same time.

They do this with the English subtitles of the German production "Die Kaiserin" ("The Empress"): whenever Sisi is speaking in another language, say French, the subtitles will say "[in French] I love you...", and when she switches back to German they will say "[in English] I love you...". WTF, Netflix? Note this is unrelated to understanding German; it's mostly Netflix looking down on its customers and assuming they cannot comprehend there are people in the world for whom their native tongue is different to the viewer's native tongue.

This has happened in more shows, enough to know it's not a fluke, though Netflix is inconsistent about it.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#293

Post by undersuit »

Oras wrote: post #120

Searching Google for older posts, found many DailyMotion links for translated movies in Arabic with "ترجمة نانسي قنقر". I suspected as others mentioned, these were extracted from torrents movies.

All my Google searches for Oracle support pages have been labelled with 'الموارد البشرية والتنمية الاجتماعية ' which translates to 'Human Resources and Social Development' for a few months now. Wonder how much this is related.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#294

Post by horseradish7k »

dandiep wrote: post #4

Whisper is unusable IMO because of the hallucinations. Widely documented. Removing silence from audio clips helps, but even then it will auto correct grammar, translating bilingual speech, etc. Improved in the latest audio models but not solved [1] 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43427376

well, auto correcting grammar happens in normal subtitles too... "Why don't subtitles match dubbing?" by Tom Scott: https://youtu.be/pU9sHwNKc2c

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#295

Post by snickerdoodle12 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #291
snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much damning evidence that AI companies have committed absolutely shocking amounts of piracy, yet nothing is being done. It only highlights how the world really works. If you have money you get to do whatever the fuck you want. If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse. Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GptobqPsvg

The dead corpses of filmmakers and authors and actors are buried in unmarked graves out behind those companies' corporate headquarters. Unimaginable horror, that piracy. Why has no one intervened? >If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse. Not that I'm a big fan of the criminalization of copyright infringement in the United States, but who has ever spent years in jail for this? Besides,…

> Besides, if it really bothered you, then we might not see this weird tone-switch from one sentence to the next, where you seem to think that piracy is shocking and "something should be done" and then "it's not good tht someone should spend time in jail for it". What gives?

What a weirdly condescending way to interpret my post. My point boils down to: Either prosecute copyright infringement or don't. The current status quo of individuals getting their lives ruined while companies get to make billions is disgusting.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#296

Post by brookst »

snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #295
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dead corpses of filmmakers and authors and actors are buried in unmarked graves out behind those companies' corporate headquarters. Unimaginable horror, that piracy. Why has no one intervened? >If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse. Not that I'm a big fan of the criminalization of copyright infringement in the United States, but who has ever spent years in jail for this? Besides,…

> Besides, if it really bothered you, then we might not see this weird tone-switch from one sentence to the next, where you seem to think that piracy is shocking and "something should be done" and then "it's not good tht someone should spend time in jail for it". What gives? What a weirdly condescending way to interpret my post. My point boils down to: Either prosecute copyright infringement or don't. The current sta…

> Either prosecute copyright infringement or don't

This is the absolute core of the issue. Technical people see law as code, where context can be disregarded and all that matters is specifying the outputs for a given set of inputs.

But law doesn’t work that way, and it should not work that way. Context matters, and it needs to.

If you go down the road of “the law is the law and billion dollar companies working on product should be treated the same as individual consumers”, it follows that individuals should do SEC filings (“either require 10q’s or don’t!”), and surgeons should be jailed (“either prosecute cutting people with knives or don’t!”).

There is a lot to dislike about AI companies, and while I believe that training models is transformative, I don’t believe that maintaining libraries of pirated content is OK just because it’s an ingredient to training.

But insisting that individual piracy to enjoy entertainment without paying must be treated exactly the same as datasets for model training is the absolute weakest possible argument here. The law is not that reductive.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#297

Post by brookst »

codedokode wrote: post #258
Analemma_ wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it’s legal slash fair use to train on copyrighted material is only one of the questions currently being asked though. There’s a separate issue at play where these companies are pirating the material for the training process. By comparison, someone here brought up that it might be transformative fair use to write a play heavily based on Blood Meridian, but you still need to buy a copy of the book. It would sti…

If they would buy material at a large scale, the seller might require them to sign a contract that requires royalty if the material is used for training an AI. So buying legally is a way to put yourself into a trap.

They can buy individual works like anyone else.

Or they can negotiate a deal at scale with whatever price / restrictions make sense to both parties.

I don’t see a way they could be “trapped”. Worst case they pay retail price.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#298

Post by mywittyname »

bGl2YW5j wrote: post #60
stingraycharles wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this overfitting, rather than a data quality / classification issue?

If the model was able to generalise, you’d expect it to output something like “[silence]” or “…”, in response to silence. Instead, it reverted to what it has seen before (in the training data), hence the overfit.

I think it's a classification issue.

Silence is never put in the subtitles of a film, since it isn't necessary. The viewers can tell that nothing is being said if there are actors on the screen. And in situations where there are no actors, then there will be a subtitle to indicate what is going on, like "[rock music plays]".

Subtitle authors use this silence to fit in meta information and have done so since the closed captions era.

Proper data cleaning procedures would be to strip this meta data from any subtitle sources. Since this wasn't done, this is fundamentally a classification issue. It may also be an over-fitting issue, but that is secondary to the classification problem.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#299

Post by gruez »

snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #284
gruez wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to equate "training" (with scare quotes) with someone actually pirating a blu-ray, but they really aren't equivalent. Courts so far have ruled that training is fair use and it's not hard to see why. Unlike copying a movie almost verbatim (as with ripping a blu-ray), AI companies are actually producing something transformative in the form of AI models. You don't have to like AI models, or the AI companies' bu…

Who's to say why I downloaded and am now watching a movie? Is it for my enjoyment? Is it because I'm training my brain? How is me training my brain any different from companies training their LLMs? Same goes for recording: I'm just training my skills of recording. Or maybe I'm just recording it so I can rewatch it later, for training purposes, of course.

>Who's to say why I downloaded and am now watching a movie? Is it for my enjoyment? Is it because I'm training my brain? How is me training my brain any different from companies training their LLMs?

None of this is relevant because Anthropic was only left off the hook for training, and not for pirating the books itself. So far as the court cases are playing out, there doesn't appear to be a special piracy exemption for AI companies.

>Same goes for recording: I'm just training my skills of recording. Or maybe I'm just recording it so I can rewatch it later, for training purposes, of course.

You can certainly use that as a defense. That's why we have judges, otherwise there's going to be some smartass caught with 1KG of coke and claiming it's for "personal consumption" rather than distribution.

None of this matters in reality, though. If you're caught with AV gear in a movie theater once, you'd likely be ejected and banned from the establishment/chain, not have the FBI/MPAA go after you for piracy. If you come again, you'd likely be prosecuted for trespassing. In the cases where they're going after someone in particular for making these rips, they usually have a dossier of evidence, like surveillance/transaction history showing that the same individual has been repeatedly recording movies, and watermarks correlating the screenings that the person has been in to files showing up on torrent sites.

Re: Complete silence is always hallucinated as "ترجمة نانسي قنقر" in Arabic

#300

Post by kyleee »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #187
snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much damning evidence that AI companies have committed absolutely shocking amounts of piracy, yet nothing is being done. It only highlights how the world really works. If you have money you get to do whatever the fuck you want. If you're just a normal person you get to spend years in jail or worse. Reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GptobqPsvg

If you owe the bank $1,000 you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 the bank has a problem. We live in an era where the president of the United States uses his position to pump crypto scams purely for personal profit.

10% for the big don
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