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Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

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Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#291

Post by FirmwareBurner »

ethbr1 wrote: post #284
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Let's spend 100x the resources on AI to do what a PID controller or Kalman filter can do.

I’m less scared about 100x the resources (in most applications) in exchange for decreasing programmer time / need. What worries me far more is the lack of formalism around risk / boundary cases by undertrained teams using modern AI solutions. Anyone building on top of a thing should either understand (a) how it’s built in detail or (b) its specifications and behavior in detail. Most of these teams understand neither…

>Most of these teams understand neither about LLMs.

That's where my 100x comes from, not from the dev effort but from the debugging of issues of an unknown black box.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#292

Post by roelschroeven »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #281
CivBase wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't watched it recently, but here are the main takeaways I remember: Peltier coolers are neat because they're very small and quiet - as opposed to vapor compression systems solutions. However, they are an order of magnitude less energy efficient. Also Peltier coolers still have to obey the laws of thermodynamics, which means that to cool one side of the mechanism, you must heat the other side. In order to do an…

AFAIK, no one has tried to build a Peltier cell paired with a heat pump. I am not an expert, but I would imagine that it's a path that could bring higher efficiencies. Thoughts?

It seems to me that if you have a heat pump, you don't need the Peltier anymore.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#293

Post by JTbane »

Incipient wrote: post #219
romantomjak wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independently scale and deploy fridges at edge. Fridge@Edge ™

Edge devices are problematic. I want to outsource the risk and decrease capex (and just hope opex works out). CloudFridge.

sorry, us-west-1 went down for 6 hours and my milk spoiled

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#294

Post by bluGill »

colechristensen wrote: post #271
bluGill wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not wrong, that is very misleading - for the vast majority we already get plenty of vitamin C in our diet and we don't have the specific situations where enormous doses will be effective. At least vitamin C is water soluble: your body will almost always just pee out any extra quick so it is very hard to overdose. Those who have a kidney problem should check with a doctor, for the rest of us massive doses just m…

>for the vast majority we already get plenty of vitamin C This is highly dependent on the population you're talking about. There are plenty of people around the world who don't have great nutrition and don't eat large amounts of fortified industrial food. >for the rest of us massive doses just make our pee more expensive The study I linked reported ridiculous doses of vitamin C "dramatically improved the clinical sta…

The vast majority of people are not currently in an ICU though. That situation doesn't apply to us.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#295

Post by raxxorraxor »

otikik wrote: post #273
zevv wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you summarize the contents of this video so we don't have to watch it?

They are very inefficient

I think there are some applications though. I remember PWMing a peltier element to cool something to more or less exactly 35°C. I didn't need to be efficient cooling, it just needed to be reliable under space constraints.

I am no hardware guy and I remember there was a giant heatsink despite the constraints. It was some kind of photosensor + lamp if I remember correctly.

I think there was also some software logic to reduce water condensing at something too cool compared to the ambient temperature.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#296

Post by TechDebtDevin »

artursapek wrote: post #269
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine theres going to be an entire new class of intelligent humans powered by LLMs that learn this way, and they are going to be at such a disadvantage to the people that do it the old fashioned way and dont take shortcuts. The vast majority of humans are going to offload all their critical think skills to LLMs. I dont want to be friends with those people. I want to start a blog about these people called "Artific…

They exist already, and are the people who watch a lot of cable TV. They are called NPCs

Yeah but I believe the internet rescued a lot of people from that existence, but the people running the internet now are actively working against that.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#297

Post by rs999gti »

zevv wrote: post #229
otikik wrote: post #211

Mandatory Technology Connections video about Peltier cooling, "Why Thermoelectric Cooling Is Inefficient": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMRePtHMZY

Could you summarize the contents of this video so we don't have to watch it?

> Could you summarize the contents of this video so we don't have to watch it?

Thermoelectric cooling is not very good and takes a lot of energy to do.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#298

Post by athenot »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #145
athenot wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wine fridge uses Peltier and is super quiet. It's the perfect application for this because wine doesn't need to be as cold as a normal fridge, and noise is a consideration. It's not completely silent though, there's a small PC-like fan but it's way less loud than a compressor.

You might be able to swap that fan out for a higher quality one like a noctua.

oh thanks for the tip! I'll look into it.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#299

Post by marcosdumay »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #281
CivBase wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't watched it recently, but here are the main takeaways I remember: Peltier coolers are neat because they're very small and quiet - as opposed to vapor compression systems solutions. However, they are an order of magnitude less energy efficient. Also Peltier coolers still have to obey the laws of thermodynamics, which means that to cool one side of the mechanism, you must heat the other side. In order to do an…

AFAIK, no one has tried to build a Peltier cell paired with a heat pump. I am not an expert, but I would imagine that it's a path that could bring higher efficiencies. Thoughts?

It's one of those cases where you can chase a very small relative gain by adding a lot of complexity.

Re: Staying cool without refrigerants: Next-generation Peltier cooling

#300

Post by marcosdumay »

akvadrako wrote: post #176
userbinator wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absorption refrigerators have been around for approximately a century, are silent, and a little more efficient than peltiers.

I used one for a couple years as my primary fridge. It was expensive, like $2k, didn't have very good temperature control and broke after 2 years and couldn't be repaired.

So... A little better than Peltier cooling in every other dimension too.
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