The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality • Hacker News Board

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#291

Post by kerkeslager » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:44 PM UTC

This is only bewildering to people who refuse to admit the problems of our current economic system because our current economic system benefits them.

Advertising needs to go. Advertising is why worse products at higher prices beat out better products at lower prices. Advertising isn't information, it's lies: nobody tells you the problems with their product or things their competitor does better. We don't need advertising to find out about products: word of mouth, experts, and independent review sites are much better sources of information already. And it's a huge drain on our economy: once you let one company advertise, then advertising is no longer optional for all their competitors.

Advertisers of HN will surely refuse to admit these pretty basic, obvious facts, use their advertising platforms to make sure pro-advertising talking points are louder than reason, and the enshittification of everything will continue.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#292

Post by wwfn » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:44 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

I think that's a good take. Market pressure for durability decreases with brand awareness. Though I think the article argues there's little market pressure regardless.

I'm also worried it's all survivorship bias. If you acquired 100 items in 2010 and 5 of them lasted until 2025, it's hard to say if the 5 surviving would be the same 5 from another household or if the items you still have were all on the hardier end of that particular items quality distribution. Another house with 100 items from 2010 will have a different 5 remaining in 2025. If that's the case, the chance you'd buy those 5 again and even have 3 with the same 15 year life span is (1/20)^3 (I think. is that math right?)

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#293

Post by cptaj » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

ludicrousdispla wrote: post #244

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

I used to be a loyal buyer of a specific Eddie Bauer T-Shirt over at least a decade, until I bought four of them online a few years ago from their website. Despite my ordering all the same size and style, each shirt is a different length (varying by as much as two inches) and fabric weight. Haven't bought one since and won't do so again.

I've come to accept that, at least in latam, shirt sizes no longer have any real meaning.

Every manufacturer in the world has a different opinion as to what those letters mean.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#294

Post by nradov » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #198

nradov wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great having the option for cheap, low-quality stuff. If I need some oddball tool for a home improvement project then I can just buy the crap at Harbor Freight. If it breaks after a few uses then so what, I won't need it again anyway.

Yeah, fuck the externalities

What are you proposing as an alternative? Spend a fortune on a high quality tool, and then either have it sitting in my garage unused for years or waste a bunch of time trying to sell it online?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#295

Post by chung8123 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

The distribution of peoples needs even out. The quality settles where the "good enough" is. That could be super high quality or just mediocre. Once that settles the super high quality has a new price point (economies of scale are no longer being subsidized by the people that need less). If that price point is too much for the people of quality to pay the product disappears.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#296

Post by bee_rider » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

nubinetwork wrote: post #254

inglor_cz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rarely have problems with IKEA products, but I had quite many problems with bespoke wooden pieces of furniture.

I find it depends on what you buy... my couch and table are fine, my bed wobbles and squeaks a fair bit... /shrug

> my bed wobbles and squeaks a fair bit...

Well, that isn’t necessarily a bad sign I guess.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#297

Post by klabb3 » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:45 PM UTC

blfr wrote: post #83

Most things are still available at the same quality your parents remember, thanks to ecommerce much more avilable, but sadly also at a similar real price your parents remember which we find extortionary by comparison to all the cheap crap flooding the market. You can have a tailored suit/shirt, hardwood furniture, grass-fed beef, vacuum to last decades, etc, but it will cost around the same in real terms and you're u…

> Most things are still available at the same quality your parents remember

Just no. The old reputable brands are enshittifying the same way. I’ve multiple times seen it first hand, with brands like Levi’s and Fjällräven. One year of wear is enough to disform the textile entirely. The fabric from those older clothes are still sturdy and whole, with only discoloration at the folding spots. No holes either from decades of use.

I magically found a sturdy canvas backpack 10 years ago and went back to the store recently to check what they had: same brand, but now all polyester.

The difference in quality is immense. Especially textile: clothes and shoes. I don’t expect the same prices, I’m happy to pay more for quality. But the brand alone often means nothing.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#298

Post by chrsw » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:46 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

In my first job out of engineering school 15 years ago I was working on a project to give people something they never had before.

Today most of my work goes towards making something that already exists cheaper. Not to pass on the savings to the customer of course, but to make the company's books look better and to make investors happier.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#299

Post by maxglute » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:46 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Same popular product gets value engineered over iterations to be worse. At same time, most category of products likely has competitors that have cropped up over last 20 years that has much better quality to price ratio.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#300

Post by nicole_express » Sun, Jul 20, 2025, 12:47 PM UTC

ath3nd wrote: post #202

brucehoult wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Apple's slowing down the clock speed allows people to use a phone with an old and dying battery for longer before they need to replace either the device or the battery. That's laughable. Apple before 2023 didn't even allow you to replace yourself unless you had their crappy plan. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8306588?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253345955?sortBy=rank https://www.wired.com…

> You have the freedom of choice to use an old IPhone with an old Lightning cable, since they are "superior" to USB-C, and old IPhones are apparently of such high quality.

It's so bizarre to act like this is a crazy thing to do, like, yeah, my iPhone does have Lightning, I haven't upgraded since they switched to USB-C and have felt no need to? Like that was pretty recent? It's not like the Dock Connector where the only iPhones that support it use wireless networks that are being actively dismantled?