Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 394 posts

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#291

Post by op00to »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #159
op00to wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy cow, they’re serious: Penalties: • Up to €15 million or 2.5 % of global turnover for essential requirement failures. • €10 million or 2 % turnover for other obligations. • €5 million or 1 % turnover for misleading or incomplete documents On the one hand, these are important standards. On the other, it seems impossible for small shops to adhere to a lot of this.

Hear me out, I have a tinfoil hat theory. What if, those requirements weren't put to help small shops making a new browser, but to guarantee the big shops who already have a browser are getting fined? * hits bong *

Probably the case!

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#292

Post by [deleted] »

utf_8x wrote: post #79
selckin wrote: post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

Maybe that wouldn't be the worst thing. Maybe chrome capturing the majority of the iOS market would finally be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back and pushes regulators towards forcing Google to sell Chrome.

[deleted]

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#293

Post by lemoncucumber »

kevincox wrote: post #284
troupo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. Apple will let users set a default maps app... only in the EU https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/03/14/dma-compliance-default-ma... The pettiness is off the charts

It's not pettiness, its just business. They want the lock in, they want the ad views they want the user data. Don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower.

Thus far Apple Maps doesn't have ads. There are rumors they may ad them (pun intended), but I don't think their motivations for steering people towards Apple Maps are primarily monetary.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#294

Post by dagmx »

SpikedCola wrote: post #204
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

In the same way, Apple is equally difficult about forcing the use of Apple Maps. If you receive an address in an iMessage, clicking/long-holding will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to share to Google Maps (it doesn't appear in the list), and the default setting to use Google Maps doesn't affect iMessage. You have to copy the address, switch to Google Maps, paste it in, and search. I would much prefer clic…

The sharing is because Google doesn’t register a share provider.

I can share just fine from messages to other apps like Tesla or other mapping software like ABRP. I don’t see a Google Maps share provider anywhere on my device though

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#295

Post by kevincox »

lemoncucumber wrote: post #293
kevincox wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not pettiness, its just business. They want the lock in, they want the ad views they want the user data. Don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower.

Thus far Apple Maps doesn't have ads. There are rumors they may ad them (pun intended), but I don't think their motivations for steering people towards Apple Maps are primarily monetary.

I think they are. Maybe not directly as you point out but there are lots of indirect reasons that don't seem that far fetched.

1. Using Apple Maps makes the switching cost to other devices (that don't have Apple Maps) higher.

2. Having more users makes any future monetization more valuable. I understand that there doesn't yet appear to be any direct monetization but I very much expect to see it at some point.

3. Removing traffic from competitors hurts them making their product relatively better the the competitors.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#296

Post by concinds »

simondotau wrote: post #183
v5v3 wrote: post #2

That you for your ongoing work Open Web Advocacy.

The open web requires browser diversity in order to remain healthy, far more than it needs individuals to have browser choice. The former is important for the health of open standards; the latter only matters if you believe the web is whatever Google implements in Chrome. Without healthy browser diversity, the web might as well be renamed the Chrome Protocol and the "browser choice" you care about so much is gone.

That's a deeply fallacious argument.

https://infrequently.org/2022/06/apple-is-not-defending-brow...

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#297

Post by FirmwareBurner »

Eisenstein wrote: post #276
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Labor is absolutely the bottleneck. Question: Europe has had an open door migration policy since at least 2015 and taken millions of migrants, especially Italy and Greece. Why haven't all those migrants turned EU's or Italy or Greece's economies into a powerhouse and built US big-tech competitors here? Same question for Canada. When is that magic economic growth from population growth coming? Answer: Because US inve…

I was responding to a specific aspect regarding population and labor, I am not an expert on Europe. I would like to say, though, that starting with a conclusion and working backwards from it is a really terrible way to proceed with a hypothesis.

>I was responding to a specific aspect regarding population and labor

Like which example are you referring to? Be specific. Because you haven't provided any reproducible arguments or specific facts to support your opinion, and I gave you a real life example that disproves your hypothetical one.

>I am not an expert on Europe

You don't need to be one to argue on this, if you have other arguments that can be substantiated with proof or facts to disprove mine.

>I would like to say, though, that starting with a conclusion and working backwards from it is a really terrible way to proceed with a hypothesis.

I'm not starting from the conclusion, I just picked the best real life example at my disposal that contradicts your point and chose to narrate it from that end, but it doesn't change the start condition or the outcome, it's still the same no mater from which way you look at it.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#299

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

resource_waste wrote: post #278
fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I daily use Safari on MacOS and iOS, and regularly use Edge on MacOS and Windows 11. I really don't notice a difference, other than I find the dev tools in Chromium browsers more familiar and overall better.

You are happy to sacrifice your freedom and you don't notice a difference? Have you considered you are just rationalizing your condition rather than having a genuine take? Its easier to cope with the idea that you've chosen this 'freedom', than to realize you don't have it.

Brother, I have no idea what you're talking about. I feel like it's gotta be some high concept trolling lampooning the spirit of the average Hacker News but I don't have the energy to read your comment history and find out.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#300

Post by abirch »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #256
abirch wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can look at China that is focused on growth at all costs. If you look at rare earth metals, they're equally distributed but they are toxic to extract. The west has pretty much stopped extracting. China is still going full steam ahead. https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-wrestles-with-the-toxic... China would bulldoze my hometown in 2 seconds if it meant an addition 0.1 GDP. I would say that the US is between Euro…

>We can look at China that is focused on growth at all costs. It's easy to look down on others from an ivory tower in the wealthy developed west, but consider that China was dirt poor a few decades ago. What else would you have chosen? Die of poverty while protecting the environment? Same with India. They did what they had to in order to survive. The west did that too in the industrial revolution. China had to speed…

I'm not looking down at China. I use using it as an example of there's a trade off between environmental and growth. I don't believe I offered a value statement. Yes the USA is famous for breaking treaties with the Native Americans whenever they found resources on the Native American's reservations. The USA seized private property to give to a pharmaceutical company.[0]

Do you believe there can be trades off between consumer, environmental protections, and GDP? I do.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Post reply on HN