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A new PNG spec

programmax.net

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Re: A new PNG spec

#291

Post by bastawhiz »

jdiff wrote: post #184
bastawhiz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes sense for an app made for photos: why would you capture a photograph to disk in a format made for distributing on the web?

Indeed, why might one upload a photo to the web in a format made for distributing images on the web?

I could save my photos as BMPs like early digital cameras did but that doesn't make it practical or reasonable. My camera takes pictures as RAW or HEIF files. Why would I save my photos to a primarily lossy codec that's optimized and designed for distribution rather than preserving fidelity?

We used to do this with JPEG, in fact. And that's why many pictures on Facebook from pre-2018 or so all have a distinctive grainy look. It's artifacts on top of artifacts. Storage on phones isn't tight anymore, we don't need to store photos in a format meant to minimize bytes at the expense of quality.

Re: A new PNG spec

#292

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

cmiller1 wrote: post #245
gred wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes two image format names which I will refuse to pronounce correctly (the other being GIF [1]). [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/22/tech/web/pronounce-gif

How do you pronounce PNG?

"Pong". Hate me, I don't care.

Re: A new PNG spec

#293

Post by mandmandam »

LocalH wrote: post #278
pwdisswordfishz wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linguistic prescriptivism is wrong , and people who promote it are showing they have zero respect for others when they don't have to.

I agree that language is fluid. However, when it comes to names, I think people should have enough respect to pronounce things how the creator (or owner, depending on the situation) of the name says it should be pronounced. Too often people will mispronounce someone's name as a sign of intentional disrespect (see Kamala Harris for a fairly recent prominent example) and I cannot get behind that. You see a similar disr…

If the creator insists on a weird pronunciation, because of an inside joke most won't ever get, then I feel no responsibility in humoring them.

The G in gif is for graphics. Not 'giraffics'. And most people in the world have no idea what Jif even is, much less a particular catchphrase from an old ad campaign that barely even connects.

Re: A new PNG spec

#294

Post by npteljes »

LocalH wrote: post #253
dspillett wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the creator of gifs telling the world how he pronounced it made such a huge difference :) Not sure I'll bother to reprogram myself from “png”, “pung”, or “pee-enn-gee”.

I've said "jif" for almost 40 years, and I'm not stopping anytime soon. Hard-g is wrong , and those who use it are showing they have zero respect for others when they don't have to. It's the tech equivalent to the shopping cart problem. What do you do when there is no incentive one way or the other? Do you do the right thing, or do you disrespect others?

As much as I hate jif, thinking about it, "GPU" works the same - we say gee-pee-you and not gh-pee-you. Garbage Collection is also gee-cee. So it's only logical that jif is the correct one - even if it's not the widely accepted one.

Wrt/ communication, aside from personal preference, one can either respect the creator, or the audience. If I stand in front of 10 colleagues, 10 out of them would not understand jif, or would only get it because this issue has some history now. gif on the other hand has no friction.

Ghengis Khan for example sounds very different from its original Mongolian pronunciation. And there is a myriad others as well.

Re: A new PNG spec

#295

Post by bigfishrunning »

LocalH wrote: post #253
dspillett wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the creator of gifs telling the world how he pronounced it made such a huge difference :) Not sure I'll bother to reprogram myself from “png”, “pung”, or “pee-enn-gee”.

I've said "jif" for almost 40 years, and I'm not stopping anytime soon. Hard-g is wrong , and those who use it are showing they have zero respect for others when they don't have to. It's the tech equivalent to the shopping cart problem. What do you do when there is no incentive one way or the other? Do you do the right thing, or do you disrespect others?

pronounce the jraphics interchange format any way you want, everyone knows what you're talking about anyway -- try not to get so worked up. It's not the shopping cart problem, because no-one is measurably harmed by not choosing the same pronunciation as you.

Re: A new PNG spec

#296

Post by kccqzy »

ggm wrote: post #45
SchemaLoad wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue that gets me is that Google Photos and Apple photos will let you manually pick a date, but they won't actually set it in the photo EXIF, so when you move platforms. All of the images that came from scans/sent without EXIF lose their dates.

It's in sidecar files. Takeout gets them, some tools read them.

But there is no standardization of sidecar files, no? Whereas EXIF is pretty standard.

Re: A new PNG spec

#297

Post by thesz »

ksec wrote: post #170

It is just a spec on something widely implemented already. Assuming Next gen PNG will still require new decoder. They could just call it PNG2. JPEG-XL already provides everything most people asked for a lossless codec. If there are any problems it is its encoding and decoding speed and resources. Current champion of Lossless image codec is HALIC. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38990568

HALIC discussion page [1] says otherwise.

[1] https://encode.su/threads/4025-HALIC-(High-Availability-Loss...

It looks like LEA 0.5 is the champion.

And HALIC is not even close to ten in this [2] lossless image compression benchmark.

[2] https://github.com/WangXuan95/Image-Compression-Benchmark

Re: A new PNG spec

#298

Post by kristopolous »

cmiller1 wrote: post #245
gred wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes two image format names which I will refuse to pronounce correctly (the other being GIF [1]). [1] https://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/22/tech/web/pronounce-gif

How do you pronounce PNG?

I used to call them Nogs claiming the P was silent.

People believed me. Still funny.

Re: A new PNG spec

#299

Post by bigfishrunning »

bawolff wrote: post #151
riffraff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression many gifs these days are actually served as soundless videos, as those basically compress better. Can animated PNG beat av1 or whatever?

Its also because people like to "pause" animations, and that is not really an option with apng & gif.

why not? that's up to the program displaying the animation, not the animation itself -- i'm sure a pausable gif or apng display program is possible

Re: A new PNG spec

#300

Post by kccqzy »

echelon wrote: post #233
socalgal2 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just tested reddit. It works fine with .webp I don't have an instagram account

Try https://www.reddit.com/settings/profile There are so many uneven areas of Reddit where WebP doesn't work. Old reddit, profile support, mod tools, etc.

I'm convinced that this is because of the prevalent MVP culture in modern software engineering. Instead of holistically looking at a new feature request such as "support webp images" we break it down into parts (e.g. "serve webp" "accept webp upload here" "accept webp upload there") and then we call it a MVP when only the highest priority items are done.
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