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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

291–300 of 407 posts

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#291

This is insane. They aimed his corporate account. Europeans move away from the US even faster now. This guy is literally breaking decades old relationships.

You think Europe would really behave any different? Israel is the wedge and leverage to eliminating governments of Iran, Pakistan, China and then India and weakening Russia further. Colonialism hasn't gone anywhere, evidence? Europe fully protects settlers and their ambitions despite what they say publicly. It is a long road but the most realistic one they have.

> Israel is the wedge and leverage to eliminating governments of Iran, Pakistan, China and then India and weakening Russia further.

China and India? and Russia? Israel doesn't care about them.

Israel is using America and Europe to gain control of the middle east, so they want to eliminate Iran (and just like with Iraq, they want the US to do it for them).

Pakistan is somewhat friendly so not really a threat to Israel's control over the middle east.

US and Europe do not benefit from this. Europe actually suffers as instability in middle east causes a refugee crisis in Europe.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can point to Trump as a particular outlier, who in his first term green lit the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum, burning considerable political captial among Israel's detractors, in exchange for..... absolutely nothing (seemingly). As well as his general rhetoric (like his comments on Gaza) being considerably out of keeping with most of the Presidents before him.

> the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum Israel considers their capital to be Jerusalem. Was there any other country where we just reject the city they consider their capital? Like would we tell Germany that we won't recognize Berlin as their capital and would instead tell them we are going to consider Hamburg their capital?

Jerusalem is partitioned in two, like Berlin was during the cold war. The US embassy for west Germany (and the capital of west Germany) were in Bonn. Moving the capital of west Germany to Berlin would have been seen as a very aggressive move.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#293
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite your presumption that US policy is set "because it's popular" it empirically is not Not what I claimed. Vocal, motivated minorities who are willing to back a primary challenger, show or not show to off-cycle elections and potentially even switch parties over an issue command in American elections. What the majority loosely believes is irrelevant; this should be common knowledge given how our partisan primar…

>Not what I claimed Yet what you directly claimed hinges upon this fallacy. >Vocal, motivated minorities who are willing to back a primary challenger Or foreign countries. (is Russia also a "vocal, motivated minority" in Moldova...? or is it just plain and simple foreign meddling? Russia believes it's motivated minorities). >What the majority loosely believes is irrelevant Sure. But, this would make your clain of "Is…

> what you directly claimed hinges upon this fallacy

No. It doesn’t. It’s why I never cite general popularity for Israel. Only strong favour for and against.

> this would make your clain of "Israel has had unique sway in America because for most of its history it has been uniquely popular" completely untrue

Nope. Israel has a vocal minority that loves it. It has not had, until last last year, a vocal minority that hates it. Most people don’t care, and when they gave a view on caring, it was mild support. That’s a unique popularity profile that I don’t think any other country, other than maybe Cubans, have held.

Even today, very few voters would trade pocketbook issues for a pro-Palestinian policy portfolio. Several would for a pro-Israeli one.

It’s a tempting tale, and simplifying model, to assume unilateral causes of policies. Sometimes that is true. In this case, the theory requires a level of coördination across decades and the American public that borders on anti-vaccine levels of delusion. (It’s also, again, a self-defeating mythology. If Israel’s influence is untouchable, it isn’t worth touching.)

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#294
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US interventionalism over the course of its existence would make that a form of hypocrisy. Also where would the US be without support of nations like France, Spain and the Dutch Republic in its revolutionary war? You can't have it both ways, we're intrinsically tied together. I think its important part of friendship to call one another to account.

Well let me put it this way, I’m under no illusions that foreign nations will always attempt to exert their influence over American affairs. The only obligations we maintain with other nations are the ones we committed ourselves to, and yes, I know some of that is in question right now, but for what it’s worth I’m actually on the side of maintaining our commitments rather than pissing all over them or playing this si…

I dont get why Americans are willing to die on a hill of defending some third-world country's president who committed well documented crimes against humanity and genocide

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Europe would really behave any different? Israel is the wedge and leverage to eliminating governments of Iran, Pakistan, China and then India and weakening Russia further. Colonialism hasn't gone anywhere, evidence? Europe fully protects settlers and their ambitions despite what they say publicly. It is a long road but the most realistic one they have.

> You think Europe would really behave any different? And do you think America would run their government on the software of European tech monopolies?

They run their tech and production on Chinese monopolies

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#296
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are becoming incoherent. By your own argument, the Nuremberg trials were not necessary. Anybody lacking the military might to defy the U.S. can be summarily executed without a trial. Anybody enjoying the support of the U.S. military is exempt from any courtroom regardless of their actions. Then here you write that Nurenmberg was appropriate and necessary. You don't seem to be able to hold the thread of your own a…

If the alternative was to leave Germany to the Soviet wolves, allow France to colonize it, or disregard the events of the Holocaust and not thoroughly document what occurred, how, and under whose orders, then it was necessary. If you don’t care about any of that, sure, you can make the argument the Nuremberg trials were unnecessary, but I’m not going to be the one to do it. Do note that the key difference between Ame…

"America" is a lot of things. Of course it is a sovereign nation. But let me here propose to you a different idea of America.

I was raised inside the United States. I have a very deep love for America. But the America I love is not a place. It is a collection of principles. It is an ideal. In as much as that ideal has been realized in the place I grew up, it makes that place America to me. But America the place and people have not been perfect executing America the idea. What group of humans ever were perfect? One of the beauties of America the place, and one of the things I cherish most about it is the constant willingness to put itself and its ideals on trial. I love an America that asks "What is right?" before asking "What are you going to do about it?"

I believe it is un-American to refuse to ask the first question, but constantly ask the second question without considering the first. Using the second question to intimidate all those who ask the first question is repugnant to me. It threatens the America that I love.

America is on trial whether you like it or not. The America I love will always be on trial as long as it exists. To end the trial would kill that America.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#297
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

I don't advocate for the U.S. to concede its sovereignty to an outside court. But I do think that having an outside court publicly try the guilt or innocence of somebody within the U.S. is much more palatable than having some non-court within the U.S. decide on whether non-U.S. citizens living outside the U.S. should live or die. The U.S. openly assassinates foreigners in foreign countries without even faking a trial…

> But I do think that having an outside court publicly try the guilt or innocence of somebody within the U.S. is much more palatable than having some non-court within the U.S. decide on whether non-U.S. citizens living outside the U.S. should live or die.

If I were neutral on America and if a neutral disposition, you might be correct. However, I’m not.

The President of the United States is elected to be a civil and military leader, as the Head of the United States Government, as the Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces, and to represent the United States abroad as our Head of State.

All other things being equal, I would prefer the POTUS to also be moral and to generally be a good moral leader in his capacity as the POTUS, but that is not the same as being nice, and “nice” is not what the elected President is elected to be.

So, would I for example, prefer to capture people like Qasem Soleimani and try them in an open court? Absolutely. Is that more practical than having killed him when the opportunity presented itself dealing a blow to an enemy nation, taking out one of the most important men in his nation which is openly hostile to America and our ally? Not really, but I’d rather see someone like that dead than in a position to threaten American assets and personnel in the region. You can even debate whether American assets or personnel should be in the region, but as long as they are, it is absolutely the President’s job to defend them, because it is under his orders that they are present at all and the American military is formed from the people of our country, and nowhere is it written in our Constitution that the President’s decisions should be second-guessed or tried in an International Court. Even our own courts shy away from this as it relates to foreign policy and the policy of the military.

> It's hard to complain that a court with very little power to enforce any ruling is giving U.S. citizens an open trial.

It would be pretty easy to complain if they pursued trying American citizens when we don’t recognize their jurisdiction over American citizens. The ICC, whatever else it is, is still a court with the backing of real sovereign nations. They’re not a high school debate club.

> How exactly do you judge what is appropriate and what is not?

A combination of morality, the law, diplomacy and hard power. You can even concoct scenarios if you wanted to where the United States may even been in the losing moral position but still win on all other fronts, but for starters, we’re not party to the Rome Statute, we do have our own laws on trying war crimes, and we also maintain a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#298
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with what is appropriate?

I thought I was clear on this, but I guess not: it was entirely appropriate. They lost so thoroughly and the Holocaust was so repulsive that it was arguably necessary . Germany itself was also in such a precarious position that the continued existence of the German State was in jeopardy, and probably the only way it could continue to exist in any form even after being divided was to go through the Nuremberg Trials fi…

you are being dishonest. Only 161 people were convicted at Nurembourg trials, Nazi Germany's population was 70 mln (I am not even including Italy or Japan).

The rest of the Nazis were given amnesty and continued working for the USA, or continued living/serving as usual as part of West Germany's Wehrmacht forces.

The whole process was heavily politicized and completely sham, massive tortures were used to obtain "evidence" of guilt.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://x.com/goddeketal/status/1934945918047998203/photo/1 aipac is boasting about funding majority of congress and is openly forcing candidates to pledge loyalty. If they dont pledge, they unleash the usual tools: funding the competing candidate, non-stop smearing campaigns via israeli-loyal media outlets and ethnically jewish journalists (==all mainstream media), bogus accusations of "antisemitism" and etc

> aipac is boasting about funding majority of congress and is openly forcing candidates to pledge loyalty. If they dont pledge, they unleash the usual tools Sure. The NRA does the same. There are various pro-Palestinian groups who also did the same last cycle; they may have helped swing Michigan for Trump. Spending money doesn’t change minds, it helps activate latent sentiment. Particularly on low-priority issues, wh…

spending money absolutely does change minds of a politician, this is the main purpose of a lobby and this is how proposals become laws.

for example the most recent bogus "IHRA definition of antisemitism" was heavily lobbied and coordinated. This is the prime example of what money can do in politics

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#300
post #269
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re only talking about today, bruh. There’s no sense worrying about a tomorrow that may never come, but I’m willing to bet that 10 years from now we still have the strongest military in and around The Hague and even beyond, very very few would ever be willing to threaten war with us to back up the ICC. Now, 20 years from now? 30 years from now? 50? Who knows.

10 years from now either a non-state entity or the People's Republic of China will have the strongest military, and geography won't matter for military power.

Let’s say for the sake of argument, that’s true just to shortcut this: the PRC is also not party to the Rome Statute. Neither is Russia if you’re wondering. The largest military of a country party to the Rome Statute and the largest financial contributor to the ICC is Japan. Good luck.
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