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Now might be the best time to learn software development

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Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#291

Post by blindriver »

guicen wrote: post #131

In fact, in my opinion, one of the benefits of AI tools that is often overlooked is "psychological support". When you are stuck at work, it will give you a push. Even if it is not completely right, it is enough to get you moving. The feeling of "no longer fighting alone at work" is actually more important than many people think.

I 100% agree with this. Part of the problem is getting stuck with bad documentation or a bad API, and asking ChatGPT to generate sample code is really beneficial to keeping me going instead of mothballing an idea for months or forever.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#292

Post by giantg2 »

bluGill wrote: post #226
giantg2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the opposite of what I'm seeing. I see plenty of openings at Walmart, bus drivers, etc. I see very few openings in many higher paying jobs (healthcare might be an exception). Even the dev jobs I'm finding are low paid at small companies, like $70k per year low (and this isn't a low cost area).

Wait a couple years before you start stating anything as a trend. There have been several downturns over my lifetime (I'm 50) where it was hard to find a tech job, and several periods of good times where tech people were in high demand. Until several years have past you cannot tell the difference between a temporary downturn and the end of an era. Every time things turn bad a lot of people jump out and yell it is the…

I'm not saying it won't turn around, but its been about 2-3 years.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#293

Post by kypro »

michaelteter wrote: post #71

Having experienced several overhyped corporate knee-jerk (and further press-amplified) silver bullets, I expect this will play out about as well as the previous ones. And by that, I mean corps will make poor decisions that will be negative for thought workers while never really threatening executive compensation. I see this latest one somewhat like TFA author: this is a HUGE opportunity for intelligent, motivated bui…

> If our jobs are at risk now or have already been lost, then we might as well take this time to make some of the things we have thought about making before but were too busy to do (or too fatigued).

Do what you think is best of course, but is a very bad recommendation for those who have lost their jobs and are unlikely to find another in software any time soon (if ever).

I said a few years ago when people were still saying I was overreacting and AI wouldn't take jobs, people need to reskill ASAP. If you've lost your job, learn how to paint walls or lay carpet before your emergency fund is up. In the unlikely event you find another software job while you're training, then great, if not you have a fall back.

Remember you're highly unlikely to make any serious money out of a bootstrapped startup. Statistically we know significantly fewer than than 1% of bootstrapped startups make money, let alone become viable replacements for a full-time income.

Don't be stupid – especially if you have a family depending on you.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#294

Post by sokoloff »

aaronbaugher wrote: post #208
redeeman wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you need a union? everyone should just set their personal standards for what they accept/demand, and then let the market sort it out? someone wants to work for $20/hour programming, in a fashion that can satisfy some demand? great, then I will simply NOT be doing that job. Everyone wins even though I do not get that particular job. Someone is willing to work 7 days a week as they prefer to grind to earn more m…

History, especially the industrial age, says that attitude leads to a race to the bottom. There's always someone who's willing to work for a little less, in a little shittier conditions, to pack a few more family members into a shitty apartment to make do. If you leave it up to each worker to fend for himself with no negotiating power beyond his personal freedom to walk out, you get sweatshops and poorhouses in any i…

Tech workers have the freedom to unionize in the US; with exceedingly rare exceptions, they’ve overwhelmingly not chosen to do so.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#295

Post by blindriver »

dakiol wrote: post #160
pyman wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked my students to write a joke about AI. Sometimes humor is the best way to get people to talk about their fears without filters. One of them wrote: "I went to work early that day and noticed my monitor was on, and code was being written without anyone pressing any keys. Something had logged into my machine and was writting code. I ran to my boss and told him my computer had been hacked. He looked at me, concern…

Why do we assume that Prompt Engineering is going to pay less money? As usual, what one brings to the company is value, and if AI-generated code needs to be prompted first and reviewed later, I don’t see how prompters in the future could earn less than software engineers now. Prompt engineering is like singing: sure thing everyone can physically sing… now whether it’s pleasant listening to them is another topic.

Because the 10% difference between the best prompt engineer and a mediocre prompt engineer won't usually make a noticeable difference in output or productivity. There's no reason to specialize in it or pay extra because the gains are ephemeral.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#296

Post by giantg2 »

bapak wrote: post #184
giantg2 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need fewer prompt engineers than developers to do the same work, and if prompt engineering is easier than developing meaning all developers can do it, then you need up with a massive labor oversupply.

How many programmers did you need 40 years ago to write MS DOS programs? As you become more productive, more is expected of you. Instead of spending 10 days coloring pixels on the screen, now you're expected to push whole UIs in the same amount of time. Whether this is enabled by high-level languages, tools or AI is irrelevant.

What am I to be productive on? The bottleneck now is finding a business idea that's viable.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#297

Post by giantg2 »

nathanfig wrote: post #222
giantg2 wrote: post #173

This article seems to ignore the 6% sector unemployment, massive layoffs, and the terrible interview processes.

I'm finding 2.4% unemployment rate for software developers: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-develope... Regardless of the true number, you're right that no amount of reasoning on paper "why" we should be employed matters if the reality is different; which it clearly is for a lot of people. Reality decides in the end. A more accurate title might have been "Why AI is a reason to become a software de…

I'm not sure how old your link is. A basic search is showing multiple sources from this year indicating the rate is more than double that 2.4 number.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#298

Post by downrightmike »

noworriesnate wrote: post #25
ako wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And compared to what we had before SQL, it is much easier to use, and a lot more people are able to use it.

But software developers often struggle to use sql and prefer using ORMs or analytical APIs like polars; the people who excel at sql are typically not programmers, they’re data engineers, DBAs, analysts, etc. Maybe a similar bifurcation will arise where there are vibe coders who use LLMs to write everything, and there are real engineers who avoid LLMs. Maybe we’re seeing the beginning of that with the whole bifurcatio…

They're all real programmers John

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#299

Post by tombert »

guicen wrote: post #131

In fact, in my opinion, one of the benefits of AI tools that is often overlooked is "psychological support". When you are stuck at work, it will give you a push. Even if it is not completely right, it is enough to get you moving. The feeling of "no longer fighting alone at work" is actually more important than many people think.

I completely agree.

There have been several personal projects that have been on the back-burner for a few years now that I would implement about 20% of, get stuck and frustrated, and give up on because I'm not being paid for it anyway.

With ChatGPT, being able to bounce back and forth with it is enough to unblock me a lot of the time, and I have gotten all my projects over the finish line. Am I learning as much as I would if I had powered through it without AI? Probably not, but I'm almost certainly learning more than I would had I given up on the project like I usually do.

To me, I view ChatGPT as an "intelligent rubber duck". It's not perfect, in fact a lot of the time time the suggestions are flatout wrong, but just being able to communicate with something that gives some input seems to really help me progress.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#300

Post by ryandrake »

sfn42 wrote: post #273
hippari2 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it exhausting in a yes-man kind of way where it does whatever you told but just somehow wrong. I think your human case is the reverse.

Just like a person would. If you want it done right you have to do it yourself. Or you have to tell the LLM exactly how to do it. Often I find it easier to just do it myself rather than list out a bunch of changes. I'll give the LLM a vague task, it does it and then I go through it. If it's completely off I give it new instructions, if it's almost right I just fix the details myself.

In so many ways, LLMs are like that very energetic and confident Junior developer you hired straight out of college who believes he knows everything but needs to be course corrected constantly. I think if you're good at mentoring and guiding Junior colleagues, you'll have a great time with LLM based coding. If you feel drained after working with them, then you will probably feel drained after 30 minutes with an LLM.
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