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Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

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Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the market is quite small and shrinking. I wish more people wanted great sound rather than phone/tv speakers (or soundbars).

I think it's not only that, but if you spend some time looking, you can often get really good deals on used gear. New gear is really expensive for what is at best a very marginal gain and all that translates into even fewer sales still. The target market isn't only people who want great sound, it's people who want great sound, have ample disposable income and live somewhere where they can actually use the gear to enj…

True. In some sense, consumer digital video and audio tech have reached an end game for living room and home theater viewing of TV and movies. Once you have 4K 10-bit HDR+ with 5.1 (or higher) digital audio there's not much new you need in signal decoding, formatting and distribution. For couch-mode, living room viewing 8K doesn't deliver any perceivable difference (8K can be useful for some desktop PC and head-mounted AR/VR scenarios but those use cases are irrelevant to home theater). Hollywood studios don't seem interested in releasing their precious content in even higher quality or bitrate than UHD Blu-ray discs (4K 10-bit HDR+ 4:2:0 up to ~100 Mbps) and two studio execs I know who bridge tech and content doubt that will ever change. Most content is mastered at 4K 10-bit, some at 6K up to 12-bit and very little at 8K.

The HDMI 2.1 standard already supports 4K 10-bit HDR+ (4:2:2 and even 4:4:4) as well as 12-bit 4:2:2 (via tunneling, a trick which packages 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 in an RGB 4:4:4 format). This is already as good (or better) than the quality studios distribute for theatrical digital projection. The only meaningful difference is bitrate but for home users that's constrained by streaming service economics and reliable in-home wifi bandwidth but 25 Mbps in H.265 is already more than enough (theatrical distribution is in the 20 year-old JPEG 2000 compression format, hence needing higher bitrate). So, if you already have a media player and AV receiver that are HDMI 2.1 (48 Gbps) capable (which first appeared in products in 2018), it should be able to handle up to 4K 12-bit HDR+ as ICtCp 4:2:2 which is higher quality than even UHD discs and, I think, the highest practical quality that content for living room viewing will be distributed in in the foreseeable future.

Given all that, it's curious Samsung decided to buy these companies at any price. Are they just rolling up adjacent brands for the low-growth revenue and some marketing synergy or is there a bigger plan?

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#292
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can agree used speakers offer incredible value. Having an 4k oled TV bundled into $400 package _is_ surprisingly cheap even then imho!

Looking for used speakers. What makes/models should I be considering. Also gotta add, if my B&W speakers started playing ads at startup, Id be fucking livid!

Sonus Fabers are amazing. Get a pair of Grand Pianos or even Concertos. They need some power though. 6 ohm

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#293

Now there are more avenues for Samsung to shove bloatware down our throats. I have a modestly high-end home theater and it is utterly maddening waiting for devices to “boot” and “handshake”. And after the wait, I’m presented with another “User Agreement” to sign that insists on shoveling ads down my throat and harvesting data. How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experien…

I could offer you some nice speakers. 20k for a pair :-)

No Bloatware.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How much do you have to pay for a quick boot, no ads, and a private movie or music experience? Just like every retailer has embraced usury with their credit card programs, every technology company has decided they are in the data harvesting business." isn't like this our goal here??? I mean we are comment on YC site that produce startup aiming just that

Originally yes, but now this is a complaint forum for pessimistic big tech worker bees to vent their frustrations while never actually having to invest time, money or effort on actually doing anything. Generally though, consumers have already spoken with their wallets on this topic and they have told many thousands of doe-eyed founders loud and clear: “we will happily sacrifice our time and privacy to save a $3, brin…

It's fundamentally still a forum for VCs to VC. You see this periodically where some topic comes up that's completely antithetical to VC, and gets quickly flagged or downvoted to oblivion, even though there may be lively discussion. For example, this occurs when open source licenses are being discussed. The remaining undead comments are the ones favouring licenses that favour venture capital interests.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> isn't like this our goal here??? I mean we are comment on YC site that produce startup aiming just that NO! I've been here long enough to remember PG saying to build something people WANT. YC has become less about technical founders building an MVP and more about the investors finding something they can make money from. The later often depends on "monetization" which has become the driver of enshitification, which…

Agree; though it's not just a change in the type of people involved in YC, the actual people - Paul Graham included - have changed dramatically. When I look at PG's essays over time I see an obvious shift from someone trying to explain th HOW (often naively or inaccurately, but usually genuine) to someone trying to rationalize the WHY of positions, ideas and actions that seem inconsistent and at odds with the hacker…

I think we should just embrace the fact that more money is made from worse products, and we live in a system where the point is to make as much money as possible. If you don't like that, you should campaign to change the system, not just complain about the people doing it.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#296
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the mastering of most shows and movies is shit today anyway, and the downmixing of that shit to -e.g. 2.1 is even worse.

God, does 5.1 or better really shine on 90s surround sound movies. And occasionally newer ones, but a lot more back then. They also hadn’t given up on original music. It’s crazy how much the soundtrack elevates otherwise-not-amazing films like Twister. I desperately wish they’d at least go back to caring about that.

We used to listen to a lot of music with Dolby ProLogic enabled even though the music clearly isn't encoded with that in mind. Since ProLogic works off of the audio phasing to decide what is sent to the rear speakers, a lot of the effects used in the music mix trigger ProLogic to send random things to the rear. It's an interesting experience. Maybe less so without the use herbal remedies too.??? Some of the call&response type lines from Beastie Boys would very clearly come from the rear, and was quite startling the first time hearing it. With 5.1 and beyond, everything is discrete tracks, so that trick no longer works. Do modern surround units even do ProLogic any more?

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#297
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swear there's something genetic about it; I can see the difference between VHS and 4K clearly every time, but I have to remind and point it out to my wife (she couldn't care about the difference between the VHS-quality rip of a movie and the 4K blu-ray). It has to be absolutely seamless; the received stopped working and the TV was making the noise instead, and it took a month for me to be finally arsed to go fix it…

We have traditional cable TV, where there are standard def channels on, say, channels 2-99 and then identical HD channels from 702-799, and my wife constantly lands in the SD channels by accident and doesn’t notice the difference. I have switched back and forth between the same show on SD and then HD to show her the huge difference and she just shrugs and legitimately doesn’t see it or care.

I did the A/B test between an OTA broadcast and the cable channel to show people just how poor the cable compression really is. The majority of people could see the difference, but like you mention there's always at least one person claiming to not see it. These are definitely not someone to hire as a QC/QA team member!

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#299
post #69

I wonder how much Chi-Fi has to do with this. If they are buying brands, then I doubt they care about the hardware technology. They might have a strong idea to pump Chi-Fi into these brands and let the brands do the selling.

Lots of the hardware is already made in China if not Vietnam. Chinese engineers cutting out the middle men and taking Hi-Fi problems into their own hands is result of value shift out of hardware into services. I doubt China would be to blame for this when the entirety of developed world is nudging companies to add more salt and use less meat.

Re: Samsung is paying $350M for audio brands B&W, Denon, Marantz and Polk

#300
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can agree used speakers offer incredible value. Having an 4k oled TV bundled into $400 package _is_ surprisingly cheap even then imho!

Looking for used speakers. What makes/models should I be considering. Also gotta add, if my B&W speakers started playing ads at startup, Id be fucking livid!

My speakers are decent:

Radiotehnika Audio Goldline 90

;-)

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