Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

annehelen.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 318 posts

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#291

Post by WorldMaker »

nradov wrote: post #285
WorldMaker wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> overeducated c-suite Arguably the modern MBA has gotten so insular, with many graduating with an MBA having only the barest modicum of humanities courses and the barest foot out of the door of a business college, that despite supposedly representing a higher University degree it seems increasingly fair to call it "undereducated". MBA programs got too deep into the business of selling as many MBAs as they could as q…

An MBA is a professional graduate degree, like a JD or MD. Criticizing professional degree programs for lack of humanities coursework rather misses the point. Students are supposed to have got that in undergraduate.

Sure, but a lot of Business undergraduate programs, even at prestigious Universities, are now "pre-MBA" and very MBA-focused, if not "direct to MBA" and allow taking bare minimums of non-Business classes and just about guarantee MBA program entry. For MD this sort of "academic incest" makes sense that you are going to have more because there is too much specialized knowledge to learn during graduate programs. (But also most pre-Med doesn't pre-qualify Med School like "pre-MBA" can.) JDs still seem to expect a variety of candidates of different undergraduate backgrounds, though "Pre-Law" sometimes exists, it often isn't a specific "program" and to my understanding can be several different options from very different undergraduate college options; "Pre-Law" seems as much about navigating the analysis paralysis of all the possible paths as anything else, without narrowing the number of paths.

I think the MBA programs have built "pre-MBA" programs not because they have so many skills to specialize, and not necessarily because they have so many possible paths to try to navigate, but because the it sells more Business school undergraduate credits.

Good MBA programs still exist. Not all MBAs involve "academic incest", and there are still MBA programs that encourage non-Business undergraduate degrees. Not all "academic incest" is bad either. But there's definitely an anecdotal sense that many of the people I see with MBAs spent the least time learning anything that wasn't taught in a Business School classroom, with the least consequences for their non-Business School GPAs, because the Business School wants that graduate degree funnel and the tuition dollars it guarantees, than any other graduate degree program I've seen. (Hence why I mentioned "perverse incentives", especially. The Business School wants you to do well in Business School so you keep paying the Business School. The Business School cares less what you do outside the Business School so that you keep paying the Business School.)

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#292

Post by dughnut »

djmips wrote: post #254
Retric wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters here is the communication overhead not how long between responses. If I’m indefinitely spending more time handholding a jr dev than they save me eventually I just fire em, same with code gen.

A big difference is that the jr. dev is learning compared to the AI who is stuck at whatever competence was baked in from the factory. You might be more patient with the jr if you saw positive signs that the handholding was paying off.

I would be more patient with an AI that only costs me a fraction of a cent an hour.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#293

Post by dughnut »

jdcasale wrote: post #264
dughnut wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you asked a junior developer to refactor a rust program to be more idiomatic, how long would you expect that to take? Would you expect the work to compile on the first try? I love Cline and Copilot. If you carefully specify your task, provide context for uncommon APIs, and keep the scope limited, then the results are often very good. It’s code completion for whole classes and methods or whole utility scripts for c…

"If you asked a junior developer to refactor a rust program to be more idiomatic, how long would you expect that to take? Would you expect the work to compile on the first try?" The purpose of giving that task to a junior dev isn't to get the task done, it's to teach them -- I will almost always be at least an order order of magnitude faster than a junior for any given task. I don't expect juniors to be similarly pro…

Personally, I think training someone on the client’s dime is pretty unethical.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#294

Post by voidnap »

jampekka wrote: post #281
voidnap wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That kind of job existing in the first place is the problem. Why? You don't think that job is important? To prevent injuries around a construction site?

In most of the world that job is done by a traffic light.

I can't speak to Japan, but the construction sites I've seen where someone is directing traffic also make use of traffic lights. They serve different purposes.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#295

Post by voidnap »

OutOfHere wrote: post #283
voidnap wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they have a physical disability or affect like they're pregnant or recovering from surgery? What if instead of a simple furniture item it's a piano. Nobody can have pianos anymore unless they move them on their own?

Even if they have a disability, it still makes sense to get a simpler bed frame. The chance of anything going wrong when someone is assembling a simple metal frame are much lower. As for pianos, they would have to get a dedicated piano mover.

> As for pianos, they would have to get a dedicated piano mover.

You said to never give up your power unnecessarily. Pianos aren't necessary.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#296

Post by grg0 »

animuchan wrote: post #213
stouset wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also this push to measure everything means that anything that can’t be measured isn’t valued. One of your teammates consistently helps unblock everyone on the team when they get stuck? They aren’t closing as many tickets as others so they get overlooked on promotions or canned. One of your teammates takes a bit longer to complete work, but it’s always rock solid and produces fewer outages? Totally invisible. Plus the…

What you're describing was precisely our culture at the last startup. One group plans ahead and overall do a solid job, so they're rarely swamped, never pull all-nighters. People are never promoted, they're thought of as slacking and un-startup-like. Top performers leave regularly because of that. The other group is behind on even the "blocker"-level issues, people are stressed and overworked, weekends are barely a t…

The classic one too is that as somebody who puts out the fires, you get all the praise; whereas if you just do the damn job right from the beginning, nobody notices. Corollary: create as many fires as you can, just don't completely burn the whole thing to the ground.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#297

Post by Paul-Craft »

Stefan-H wrote: post #256
Paul-Craft wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I come from, "hav[ing] all the rational reasons to be afraid" and pretending otherwise is called a delusion. I prefer to see the world as it is.

"... is called a delusion". What I am suggesting is not delusion, it is mindfulness and cutting through delusion. When one is presented with something that elicits a fear response (whether the stimulus is rational or not) the goal is to quiet all of the "lizard brain" reactions, and instead formulate a well reasoned response. "Fear is the mind-killer" - while from fiction, still rings true to me - if you react out of…

I'm sorry, but that is delusional. It is not possible for humans to forego emotion in favor of logic.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#298

Post by Stefan-H »

Paul-Craft wrote: post #297
Stefan-H wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... is called a delusion". What I am suggesting is not delusion, it is mindfulness and cutting through delusion. When one is presented with something that elicits a fear response (whether the stimulus is rational or not) the goal is to quiet all of the "lizard brain" reactions, and instead formulate a well reasoned response. "Fear is the mind-killer" - while from fiction, still rings true to me - if you react out of…

I'm sorry, but that is delusional. It is not possible for humans to forego emotion in favor of logic.

It's really just about giving yourself enough time to think before you respond. That's the entire difference between a reaction and a response. You can use dialectical and cognitive behavioral therapies to help develop the tolerance to do that. Mindfulness and meditative practices like those in zen buddhism have proven helpful to me as well. Perhaps you're taking an extreme interpretation of my using the word "logic" and instead you could use "wise mind" or even just "considered thought" as the response in lieu of an emotional one.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#299

Post by jwr »

jampekka wrote: post #252
jwr wrote: post #206

The problem is with work ethics, not with jobs. In Japan, it's impressive to see how people perform even the most menial jobs with dedication. It's the Yoda approach: do or do not. If you do a job, do it well. So, you will see people whose job is to stand in the rain and watch over a construction site exit making sure people in the sidewalk do not get run over by trucks exiting the site, doing their job with utter de…

> So, you will see people whose job is to stand in the rain and watch over a construction site exit making sure people in the sidewalk do not get run over by trucks exiting the site, doing their job with utter dedication. That kind of job existing in the first place is the problem. And that could be well called subservience instead of work ethic.

> That kind of job existing in the first place is the problem.

Yes, that was my initial reaction, too, when I first saw these people. I felt superior, in My Western World we didn't have jobs like that. We did Bigger and More Important Things. This job was surely an artifact, a silly attempt to reduce unemployment.

But after living in Japan for a while I realized that these jobs actually make a lot of sense. Those people pay attention and really do make sure that people do not get run over by trucks. They direct traffic, they make it easier for truck drivers, they make it easier and safer for people walking on the sidewalk as well. As a side effect, they also watch for unexpected things: if it's a roadwork site, theft, or even things like traffic cones toppling over, or safety lights not working correctly.

It really improves things for everyone.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#300

Post by dpifke »

buckle8017 wrote: post #23

> Working for UPS is a good job — and that’s part of why UPS workers are good at their jobs. Are UPS workers really better at their jobs? FedEx and UPS seem nearly identical in my area, only DHL is competent.

UPS in my area (South Dakota) is terrible, way worse than FedEx or USPS. They're so bad that I will choose a different retailer if possible if the only shipping option is UPS.

UPS has repeatedly lost packages, delivered things in crushed or shredded boxes, held packages for more than a week due to "local weather" (there was no rain or snow), made it impossible to pick up packages that are being held, and damaged my trees by backing into them after delivering to a neighbor's house.

USPS is fine in the summer, but they won't come all the way up my road if there's any snow or ice on the ground, so I had to get a PO box for regular mail.

FedEx is fantastic, I have never had any problems with them.

(We don't have DHL here.)

Edit to add: my wife works for a small online retailer that ships perishable goods nationwide from a distribution center in Missouri, and they exclusively use FedEx now. They canceled their contract with UPS due the cost of lost or delayed shipments. She says their FedEx experience has been significantly better.

Post reply on HN