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The Burnout Machine

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#291

Post by biophysboy »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

You can have the most privileged occupation and bargain to make it better. Its not different from living in the USA, the wealthiest country in the world, and bargaining to make it better.

Generally, you change something you are a part of, not because its the most important thing in the world, but because you have a stake in it and understand it.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#292

Post by rockemsockem »

whoisthemachine wrote: post #284
rockemsockem wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and what are the numbers on how many employed engineers hold that accreditation? Just because it exists doesn't mean it's used. I know for a fact that aerospace, electrical, and mechanical engineers working on designing rockets, nuclear reactors, space capsules, and electric charging infrastructure do not need this credential. And so most of them do not have it.

If they have an undergrad degree in any of those disciplines then their college has ABET accreditation.

IDK why, but I totally mixed up ABET with the professional engineering credentials where individuals get accredited as opposed to curriculums.

I'm not sure ABET is the most relevant here? What would making CS programs accredited change?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#293

Post by buildbot »

rockemsockem wrote: post #83
umvi wrote: post #40

How many tech jobs are 80 hours a week? My work life balance is pretty good at a smaller tech company, so is it the FAANG jobs expecting 80 hour weeks?

I've never heard of hours like that outside of early high-growth startups. Have worked at FAANG and know many people who've worked at many of the FAANG companies. Seems made up tbh

I’ve worked 80 hours in a week at Microsoft; before a paper deadline. After though, I was able to work less and regain balance. It’s certainly not unheard of before any kind of deadline at many companies.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#294

Post by conqrr »

stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

I can't relate to "easy mode" past the layoffs. Everything has turned into a nightmare with employer expectations. Everyone I speak to feels the same. Things are not the way they are.

Absurd Schedules - Yes

Unrealistic Deadlines - Yes

Competing Colleageues -Yes

Toxic environment - Yes

Hard to switch - Yes

Outsourcing - Yes

Training your replacements -Yes

How is this easy mode? Mental labor can be as bad or even worse than Physical labor. Atleast you hit a brick wall with physical. Your enemy is inivisible when its mental.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#295

Post by busterarm »

Henchman21 wrote: post #245
busterarm wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data Center and Operations people absolutely are blue collar in attitude and mindset, but you DC folks get to be isolated. If you're in a working environment that hires SDEs straight out of Tier 1 Universities, start talking about what it's like to grow up poor and you'll see quickly how everyone's eyes glaze over and you get treated like a pariah.

No worries on that front: I grew up dirt poor. Now I’m at a well known HFT firm. I know this quite well. I absolutely don’t belong. Edit to add: I’m never allowed to forget that I don’t belong.

Had the same experience at an extremely well known hedge fund.

Good luck and keep your head down, but also once you get to a comfortable position, find a good exit.

There are better environments and finance isn't at the top of the pay pyramid anymore.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#296

Post by ivanovm »

The tech industry unfortunately screwed up a basic social contract

It is well-understood in every other industry - if you want to be at a prestigious firm, make top compensation, sit in a nice office, work with top-tier coworkers and enjoy excellent perks, you must hustle hard and be unreasonably competitive every day to continue reaping those benefits.

I'm not even talking about back-breaking work - this is true for law, medicine, financial services, entertainment, sports, academia, and everything else I can think of.

After a decade+ run of cheap money and strong demand for talent, returning to broader reality may feel very unfair for many. But that doesn't make it so

Re: The Burnout Machine

#297

Post by Aeolun »

__loam wrote: post #159
lr4444lr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fairly progressive news outlet attracting staff with certain sensibilties in the NYC area and selling views to people who are the same, the NYTimes board of directors has a vested PR interest in tolerating unions with the large amounts money they have to pay for the privilege. I'm not convinced the company is better served by unionized employees over the rest of the tech scene, which has to innovate to stay solv…

> Knowing someone in tech there who refused to join the union, I was told these guys aren't particularly the best or smartest colleagues she's ever worked with to put it mildly. Hackernews poster go 5 minutes without insulting your peers challenge: impossible.

I think the rub is that you don’t consider them peers at all?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#298

Post by echelon »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #266
echelon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

Oh, this person isn’t a worker class. They’re managerial class spreading essentially propaganda against something that would threaten them,

I've always been an IC.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#299

Post by decimalenough »

Izkata wrote: post #264
aylmao wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this is a bad take. I've been in this industry long enough to have heard all the arguments presented here before— it's the classic ones: "pay is good", "not all jobs are bad", "others have it worse", etc. We're in a strategic industry with lots of investment, and a lot of us who check Hacker News have good enough resumes to be in demand, but this doesn't change the fact we —software engineers as a whole— are wor…

Being a worker doesn't mean "working class". That phrase pretty specifically is for people who do some sort of physical work. We fall under "professional class", people who mostly do knowledge work, traditionally at a desk in an office. They're both generally considered part of the middle class.

In the original Marxist meaning, the working class is anybody who exchanges their labor (physical or otherwise) for a wage (hourly or salaried). This is defined in opposition to the bourgeoisie, who control the means of production and earn money from the labor of others.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#300

Post by 000ooo000 »

guelo wrote: post #224
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

I've notice that many engineers that have been inside cushy corporations for a while don't realize the bloodbath that is happening outside their corporate walls in the job markets. But your CEO definitely realizes it and they are tightening the screws because they haven't had this much power over employees in a long time. They're coming for you too sooner or later.

Yeah, GP is shortsighted. "No need for unions - things are good right now!"
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