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Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

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Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#291

Post by briandear »

tehjoker wrote: post #44
echelon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ONLY answer is antitrust action from every major government. The trillion dollar companies are so massive that they are impinging upon every category of business that touches them. And they're so massive that their sinnew and tendrils touch everything under the sun. Mobile computing is de-facto owned by two companies. It's owned, tightly controlled like an authoritarian government, and heavily taxed. Compared wit…

isnt it efficient though for these capabilities to exist? why not nationalize them instead and make them accountable to the public

The Soviet Union had everything nationalized and it always accountable only to the Politburo. This idea that governments are “accountable” is cute. Government shouldn’t be running businesses.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#292

Post by jimbokun »

bearjaws wrote: post #2

It's honestly amazing how Apple managed to dodge anti-trust in the United States. The fact you cannot build a competing watch is unacceptable and the idea that "well go build one for Android" is refusing to acknowledge that Apple is its own market in and of itself. Throw in the fact that even getting an app that isn't a game into the App store is not trivial, especially if it dares include some form of payment proces…

> refusing to acknowledge that Apple is its own market in and of itself.

Is the market iOS devices or smart phones?

I think the definition of "market" is usually one of the most difficult questions to answer in anti-trust litigation.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#293

Post by sigmar »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #268

I think people forget that Apple is not making devices for the Hackernews community. They are making devices for people that just want something that works pretty well and has reasonable security - even to the extent of protecting them from themselves. They have other things to do with their time than learn about security vulnerabilities and how to avoid them. They want to just click 'yes' on every popup and expect t…

Couldn't you make that argument for literally any anticompetitive practice? Like in the 1990s: "Microsoft isn't making an OS for people that want to try different browsers"

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#294

Post by jobs_throwaway »

hyperbovine wrote: post #36
bearjaws wrote: post #2

It's honestly amazing how Apple managed to dodge anti-trust in the United States. The fact you cannot build a competing watch is unacceptable and the idea that "well go build one for Android" is refusing to acknowledge that Apple is its own market in and of itself. Throw in the fact that even getting an app that isn't a game into the App store is not trivial, especially if it dares include some form of payment proces…

I don't see how you can be a monopoly with <30% market share.

You don't see how you can be a monopoly with nearly 2/3 market share and 2.5x market size of your next-largest competitor? You must not be very imaginative

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#295

Post by closewith »

holmesworcester wrote: post #62
echelon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ONLY answer is antitrust action from every major government. The trillion dollar companies are so massive that they are impinging upon every category of business that touches them. And they're so massive that their sinnew and tendrils touch everything under the sun. Mobile computing is de-facto owned by two companies. It's owned, tightly controlled like an authoritarian government, and heavily taxed. Compared wit…

I don't think we need any major government intervention. What we need is a law that requires companies like Apple to allow their customers to install and run the software they wish, and provide external developers with the same OS features their internal teams have access to. Europe and Brazil already have such laws, though they could go farther. In the US we had this bill, which would have covered most of these issu…

> What we need is a law that requires companies like Apple to allow their customers to install and run the software they wish, and provide external developers with the same OS features their internal teams have access to.

So major government intervention.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#296

Post by threeseed »

Nextgrid wrote: post #110
vessenes wrote: post #101

I guess I’ll take the contra here on messages integration — moving a message over BLE to untrusted hardware and worse accepting them back into iMessage is a massive, massive change in the security boundary and therefore security architecture and therefore security promises that apple makes on iMessage. I do not believe average smartwatch users understand what they’d be doing if they got this. I do not believe vendors…

> moving a message over BLE to untrusted hardware and worse accepting them back into iMessage is a massive, massive change in the security boundary Anyone can already screenshot iMessages and move them out of the "security boundary"... which btw doesn't exist much, as if you have any Mac connected to your iCloud account then those messages are being synced to an SQLite DB any process running under your user can acces…

> any process running under your user can access

You will need to grant that app explicit Full Disk Access permissions in order for it to access that folder.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#297

Post by briandear »

rednafi wrote: post #139

There's nothing new here. From AirDrop to AirPods, Apple's MO is to lock you into their ecosystem and be as belligerent as possible toward any non-Apple gizmo. Couple that with social and network effects, and you have a perfect formula for monopolizing a market without continuously improving the tech.

I like the ecosystem. If you don’t, choose another ecosystem.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#298

Post by joshstrange »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #161
wafflemaker wrote: post #47

Lol, you're asking for it by using apple. I'm still recommending Apple to family members (less support needed from me, and I can always say I have Android and can't use apple so I can't help). But you have to go all in. If you want non apple stuff, just use something else. And if you can use Linux etc., why are you using Apple? Other then being lazy, which is totally ok.

> Other then being lazy, which is totally ok. It's not OK. This collective laziness and convenience is our number one enemy. People don't want to be responsible, they want some corporation to manage everything so they don't have to think about stuff. We need more people to take responsibility and use Linux and free software and hardware. Owning the computing system means being responsible for it, and we need to get p…

This is such an incredibly HN take.

What are you seeing in the world that would led you to think the average Joe can use Linux without someone like us supporting them? Maybe not day to day but they are absolutely going to run into pain points like “Netflix is low quality” or “I need to install this windows app for this new gizmo I bought”.

It’s a fantasy world that Linux desktop is good enough for most people, it just is. I love Linux and use it on all my servers but come on.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#299

Post by usrusr »

Nextgrid wrote: post #170
seanhunter wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you understand what the security boundary of iMessage is. People’s phones got compromised by NSO sending images to them via whatsapp that used an exploit in one of the image libraries to run a malware payload. The security boundary isn’t about whether you can see your own messages, it’s whether bad people can root your phone by getting untrusted code to run. That’s a very different proposition if iMessa…

It doesn't need to be a plugin ecosystem - no third party code needs to run within the iMessage processes/sandboxes/containers. In fact, no third-party code needs to run at all on the phone - all that's needed is to expose an API over BLE that allows previously authorized external devices to query/send messages.

In defense of the "it's security!" position (which is not mine): I think they mean a similar vulnerability could exist on the client side of the API. As in someone sends manipulated media that targets a vulnerability on the third party device, the media gets forwarded through the API, now that compromised third party device does bad things over the API.

Personally, I think that it's really just a convenient third party lockout excuse, but the argument isn't quite as bad as it may seem at first glance.

Re: Apple restricts Pebble from being awesome with iPhones

#300

Post by briandear »

rickdeckard wrote: post #183
Nextgrid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation? When a market is stuck in a local maximum, an external force would be beneficial to push it out of it.

Exactly. But who should drive such regulation then, elected representatives which represent constituents who can't be bothered to push for it..? THAT'S the conundrum. The market urgently requires regulation, but it also became so convenient so fast and affects end-users only indirectly, so there is no sufficient momentum to drive this change...

I don’t want Chuck Schumer dictating how tech should work. Most elected officials are idiots outside of the domain of politics.
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