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Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#291

Post by lolinder »

selimthegrim wrote: post #288
lolinder wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I edited my comment to ask this as the conclusion: > Why is a wet market a more convincing explanation than a lab whose explicit mission is studying coronaviruses, one which has been publicly called out for being uncooperative with the ensuing investigation? It's possible that the widespread belief in this explanation is a failure in science communication and there's a good reason for this, but it's not a fail…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42513063 (See the astral codex ten link)

Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#292

Post by visarga »

mentalgear wrote: post #3

Impressive to think about how DeepSeek achieved: ~ Parity with o1 and Claude with > 10x less resources. Better algorithms and approaches are what's needed for the next step of ML.

> Better algorithms and approaches are what's needed for the next step of ML.

I think they did great, but they relied on distillation. So it's like riding on a skateboard while being pulled by a car.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#293

Post by ramblenode »

kayewiggin wrote: post #147
antirez wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The Chinese internal market is huge, and in case they develop models that are better than western models, not using them will be a disadvantage for us, not them. Also I can see many European countries (including my country, Italy) to buy Chinese AI regardless of US regulations. 2. Western has its own issues with data limits and extreme alignment that makes models dumber. In general I don't think the Chinese govern…

1.) EU will soon have rules to prevent Chinese AI from proliferating, since China is ramping up on its support of Russia invasion of Europe - China Is Cutting Off Drone Supplies Critical to Ukraine War Effort [1]. China is reportedly making drones for Russia instead, according to multiple intelligence officials. 2.) Chinese models have to censor a long list of words that threatens the government, which makes them sup…

> Chinese models have to censor a long list of words that threatens the government, which makes them super dumb.

The heavy-handed curation and self-censorship of ChatGPT and Gemini responses is literally a meme, though. Or are you referring to the training data?

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#294

Post by lmz »

ijidak wrote: post #279
roca wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a democracy and reasonably friendly to the USA, it's not a big deal. In the 1990s everyone thought Japan was going to be the next superpower and that was just fine.

Ha! Do you remember the panic induced by a rising Japan in the late 80's and early 90's. The fear of the "Red Sun Rising". The fear that Japan was going to own most of the valuable real estate in America. The forcing of Japanese car companies to onshore to protect American jobs. Blaming of Japanese industrial policy as being unfair competition. It was the collapse of the Japanese growth engine in the mid 90's that fi…

> The U.S. and U.K. are a dual world power.

Wait, how did the UK get in there? Especially in this post-brexit century...

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#295

Post by cheinic830405 »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #254
roca wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, real wages in the USA are the highest they've ever been. Social media and fentanyl are making people unhappy but for most people it's not an economic problem.

Sure thing, Dr. Pangloss. > Average age of first-time homebuyers is 38, an all-time high. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/11/05/the-average-age-of-first... > U.S. homelessness rose 18 percent in 2024, continuing multi-year upward trend > https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/u-s-homelessness-rose-18... > analysis of government data estimates that people in the United States owe at least $220 billion in medical debt. http…

> Average age of first-time homebuyers is 38, an all-time high.

And why is this a problem?

What is wrong with renting for life, exactly? I’m seeing more and more people own rental properties, but do not own their primary residence by choice.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#296

Post by bbreier »

roenxi wrote: post #252
robgibbons wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's commonly referred to as a deflationary spiral because the falling prices lead to people (perhaps counterintuitively) holding off from large purchases, anticipating a continued drop in prices. Sort of a "buy the bottom" mentality. The lack of spending then further contributes to falling prices, job cuts, businesses closing, etc. It's really not a situation any economy _wants_. That said, I empathize with your sen…

That is obviously wrong to the point where I am confused why someone always makes the claim. I'm looking forward to running in to someone who can actually follow up with some sort of defence of the position. Extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence style. Consider the computer industry. Prices have been falling pretty much across my entire life. Supply-demand suggests that people will keep buying new computers as…

Deflation is a problem, but not for the reason mentioned there. The reason deflation is an issue is because it makes holding cash into an investment strategy. If the price of goods is dropping, the value of money is rising, so the more cash I hold the richer I get. This obviously dissuades people with cash from investing their cash into actual productive work, which means fewer jobs. There was a small deflationary bump in American history around the 1930s that helps to illustrate what can happen in a deflationary spiral.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#297

Post by bee_rider »

Dalewyn wrote: post #266
roca wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, real wages in the USA are the highest they've ever been. Social media and fentanyl are making people unhappy but for most people it's not an economic problem.

The bad economy is the biggest (arguably only) reason Trump won against Harris, and by a landslide at that. You may think that expensive gasoline and cartons of eggs are a meme, but the reality is that the economy has become pretty damn Shite(tm) for the commons. Costs of living are objectively higher than they were just a couple years ago and incomes haven't kept pace either. The stock market is having the time of i…

I thought eggs were high because of the bird flu.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#298

Post by jasdi »

Dalewyn wrote: post #262
kopirgan wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't agree more. Especially as I wait to download 1.3gb file to update some Windows driver like Realtek audio or LED display, and you realise a whole effing Debian operating system with Xfce & apps can fit in a lot less.

Whoever are downvoting this really don't understand that expanding a congested highway merely widens the congestion instead of alleviating it. Software today require several dozen gigabytes of RAM and two dozen CPU cores just to render some simple fucking text because everyone has several dozen gigabytes of RAM and two dozen CPU cores.

This is one of the biggest reasons why China or India are threat to the West.

Because their Engineers are constantly in situations were they have to work with much less resources. And they come up with stuff that constantly surprises people for being much cheaper. The western reaction is to then go and buy them out. Its not going to work forever. They have already taken over large swathes of the tech landscape.

Even with AI for example, Real Time inference is not required in majority of cases.

But the western engineer and corp exec in big tech, are used to buying new data centers everyday (not because of specific Customer Demand, but because of intent to capture market/snuff out competition/build moats or what ever bs an environment of over abundance has trained them to do) and then they have zillions of machines idling which they use to provide real-time inference raising the cost for everyone.

Sooner or later someone in China or India working on non real time inference will offer large corps much cheaper solutions.

The Western model is where you forget how to cook a meal at home, and end up relying on McDonalds for food, because they are everywhere, thanks to their prime directive of survival via opening new stores everyday.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#299

Post by Bilal_io »

yoavm wrote: post #272
bobxmax wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are quite tame compared to other Abrahamic texts which have utterly abhorrent passages including infanticide and the encouragement and incitement of genocide. The "fighting Jews" is in contexts of self defense and warfare. Jews can live in peace in Muslim societies and must be unharmed. One of the Prophet's wives was a jew. The "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" is a pretty standard patriarchal b…

The whole text is antisemitic. "The sins mentioned here are among the many sins that the Jews committed, which caused them to be cursed and removed far away from right guidance. The Jews broke the promises and vows that Allah took from them", "their hearts are sealed because of their disbelief", "their hearts became accustomed to Kufr, transgression and weak faith" - the list is long. I don't see much point in arguin…

> "The sins mentioned here are among the many sins that the Jews committed, which caused them to be cursed and removed far away from right guidance. The Jews broke the promises and vows that Allah took from them", "their hearts are sealed because of their disbelief", "their hearts became accustomed to Kufr, transgression and weak faith" - the list is long.

All of this is specific to individuals who have transgressed at that time. Islam is very very clear on the idea that "No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another"

As mentioned in 39:7 "If you disbelieve, then ˹know that˺ Allah is truly not in need of you, nor does He approve of disbelief from His servants. But if you become grateful ˹through faith˺, He will appreciate that from you. No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of what you used to do. He certainly knows best what is ˹hidden˺ in the heart." And many other places: 17:15, 6:164, 35:18 ...

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#300

Post by Dalewyn »

selimthegrim wrote: post #275
Dalewyn wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad economy is the biggest (arguably only) reason Trump won against Harris, and by a landslide at that. You may think that expensive gasoline and cartons of eggs are a meme, but the reality is that the economy has become pretty damn Shite(tm) for the commons. Costs of living are objectively higher than they were just a couple years ago and incomes haven't kept pace either. The stock market is having the time of i…

Landslide? Electorally?

Trump won both the electoral and popular votes and won all the swing states. The Republicans took both Houses of Congress and held all governorships up for election.

Yes, he won by a landslide and the biggest factor was the bad economy.

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